Do JW's actually have "beliefs"?

by still_in74 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I wouldn't discount all official Watchtower beliefs as actual beliefs just because they result from indoctrination, i.e. they were taught and learnt --isn't it the case of all beliefs, to some extent?

    Still I find Mrs.Fiorini's question excellent -- not that the answer would necessarily make sense, but the question is potentially self-awakening, "maieutic"... I often felt that new beliefs grow unconsciously under older ones till they are ripe for expression and awareness, and this often begins with playful expression. When I was a young JW I often fancied about being the "householder" and asking really tough questions; and when I got ready for the exit (while not considering it consciously at all) I started playing with new ideas and beliefs long before I seriously realised I didn't share the older ones anymore -- only retrospectively came the question, had I ever really believed? -- but hindsight can be deceiving in its own way.

    I remember a story once told by a Belgian xJW: he was in "field service" with a "brother," and after a lengthy explanation of some Watchtower doctrine (I don't remember which) the "householder" simply asked him: "Do you really believe that?" He paused, looked at him, answered "No" and walked away, leaving both the "brother" and the "householder" speechless...

    I love this story (which I believe is genuine, but I would love it all the same if it were not) because this is the kind of epiphany that can happen when things are ripe, when new personal beliefs have secretly grown under the older ones and reach the point of expression, to everyone's (including the believer's) surprise.

  • wobble
    wobble

    The belief that the WT is God's organization,and he is guiding it ,is very strong,though totally baseless.

    I find it so frustrating that you cannot get Dubs just to examine that belief objectively,but it's nigh on impossible.

    Love

    Wobble

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I think one of the teachings that is most resisted among ordinary Witnesses is the idea that Jehovah is most concerned with the 'outworking of the kingdom' or 'his purpose'. Like at the recent Watchtower study the question was asked, why did Jehovah and Jesus heal people in Bible times but he does not heal people at the moment? The answer is that healing just now is not part of Jehovah's purpose, and that the reason Jesus healed people back then was to show God's power and what would be done in the new system. There was much in this magazine about how you should cope with illness and what is the right attitude to have. What was strikingly absent was any mention of praying to God to be made better. It was almost as if asking God to be made better would be selfish, and somehow not in harmony with his grand purpose. The believer is viewed as just a cog in the machine of eternal justice and should not expect special treatment.

    But on an individual level I think Jehovah's Witnesses resist this teaching that results in making Jehovah rather remote. Despite what the Watchtower says, most Jehovah's Witnesses like to believe that God has a personal interest in them. I remember some sisters discussing this point on the ministry a few years ago. They openly agreed that the Society was plain wrong when they state that Jehovah will only answer a prayer if it is in harmony with 'the outworking of his purpose' in some grand sense. They believe that Jehovah is interested in them on a personal level and will answer their honest prayers for no other reason than he loves them. They believe in the Jesus of the gospels who said before performing a miracle simply, 'I want to'.

  • carla
    carla

    This has frustrated me as well. I have often asked my jw, "why bother telling me what you say you/we 'believe' " when everything you claim to believe today could change tomorrow when a new wt is printed? Their belief is dependent upon what the leader tell them to believe today, subject to change without notice of course.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    The core witless belief is that God is going to destroy anyone that is not one of Jehovah's Witlesses, in the very near future (the date keeps getting pushed back when it goes out of date). They believe that one must obey the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger that puts out those rules and doctrines, or they will get destroyed.

    I, on the other hand, believe that there is no Original Sin outside Jehovah's imagination. He scammed mankind, the churches fell for the scam, and people are guilted into spreading it into the population and keeping it among the churches. No original sin, no need for "salvation". No need for salvation, no need to waste my damn time going to church or a Kingdumb Hell and do whatever some Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger tells me to.

  • VM44
    VM44

    Look at what is said in this letter to the elders concerning "Researchers". Note that the "Chrisian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesse" (really The Watchtower!) does NOT want the individual JW to fill out any survey forms. They don't want researchers to collect data on what the individual witness believes. The Watchtower cannot control what individuals might write down on the survey. Hence they only want to provide researchers with printed information!!!!

    The Watchtower is afraid of what the individual might privately believe!

    Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses
    2821 Route 22, Patterson, NY 12563-2237
    Phone: (845) 306-1100

    April 25, 2001

    TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES

    Dear Brothers:

    Recently, academic researchers who say that they are interested in conducting surveys of religious community activities have contacted the elders of a number of congregations. Since there is a need to be careful about the nature of surveys and how such information will be used, we are providing direction for a qualified elder representing the congregation to follow, provided your congregation is asked to participate. Some of the points to have in mind are as follows.

    When approached by researchers, the elder should treat them kindly, and he may listen to what they have to say. It would be well to find out what university or group the researchers represent and determine just what information they would like to have. If there are survey forms, it might be kindly explained that Jehovah’s Witnesses have considerable information in their publications that would no doubt answer some of the questions they are asking. The elder could provide such researchers with a copy of the brochure Jehovah’s Witnesses Who Are They? What Do They Believe? On page 13 of the brochure, the basic beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses are listed together with the Scriptural reasons for those beliefs. We accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God. It is the basis for all our beliefs and teachings. It is reliable, whereas tradition is not.

    Inquiry might be made about such matters as having a paid clergy class, the racial makeup and diversity of the congregation, the volunteer nature of our ministry, and the unity of our congregations. On page 13, column 2, of the above-named brochure, we have listed our belief that a clergy class and special titles are improper. If a topic is raised that is not specifically covered in the brochure, reference can be made to the Reasoning book, such as the portion on "Races of Mankind," starting on page 300. On page 304, reference is made to Acts 10:34, 35 showing that God is not partial. So Jehovah’s Witnesses do not discriminate against individuals because of race, language, or social standing. On page 305 the first paragraph points out that the oneness and unity of early Christians was a reality, and so it is today within the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    If a question comes up on the subject of neutrality, that is also covered in the Reasoning book. And if an inquiry is made about how we view marriage, not only are there Scriptural references in the Reasoning book but the book The Secret of Family Happiness can be offered to the researcher.

    The benefits to the community of our Bible educational ministry are also highlighted in other publications as well as in certain videos. The global scope of our activities is highlighted in the annual Yearbook, which includes a chart that sets out what is being accomplished in over 230 different lands. In addition, reference can be made to the Watchtower Society’s Web site so that the researcher may have access to a wide array of information, all of which explains the Scriptural basis for the position that Jehovah’s Witnesses take on vital issues.

    This approach is far more advantageous in giving a witness and providing information than having various members of the congregation taking the time needed to fill out survey forms carefully and accurately. While in some instances we can cooperate with research projects including surveys we certainly want to avoid having publishers expressing personal viewpoints that may not be in line with the Bible principles that really govern each Christian’s conduct and the united efforts of the brotherhood to carry out Jehovah’s will.

    If researchers or others approach elders seeking information and some issues come up about which the elders are not certain, they should not make any comments. Rather, these inquiries should be referred to the Service Department, at the address above, for attention.

    We are confident that this direction will be sufficient for you to provide an appropriate response to anyone who approaches the congregation with an inquiry or survey about the work we do in the community and worldwide. May Jehovah’s spirit be your guide in caring for this matter as well as in all that you do in His sacred service.

    Your brothers,

    Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    An interesting letter VM44, and totally contradicts Watchtower lawyer Carolyn Wah who has been encouraging academics to study Witnesses.

    It seems the Watchtower can't make up its mind whether it wants outsiders studying them or not. Having said that I do think they have opened up a lot in recent years compared to how they used to be.

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/3512060

  • yknot
    yknot

    I think many JWs sincerely believe in the core 3 and a literal millennial reign with 144,000 serving as Kings and Priests.

    However in regards to 'authority given'......The "slave" has done much to diminish complete faith in the organization amongst those born after 1965.

    In this day and age (as time continues to march on with not even tribulation insight-unless you wanna count rising gas prices and big business bailouts) to believe in 1914, 1918-1919 is kinda like believing a 17 year old boy prayed to God on Sept 21, 1823 and Moroni, a messenger sent from God, stood before him. In mortal life Moroni had been the last of ancient American prophets having authorityfrom God and whose teachings were recorded for our time. Moroni instructs the 17 year via vision where some 'plates' can be found on a hill. Every September for four years, Joseph went to the Hill Cumorah and was taught by Moroni. In September 1827 Joseph met Moroni at the hill and received the gold plates. Twenty-one months later, having completed the translation, Joseph returned the plates to Moroni.......

  • VM44
    VM44

    Carolyn Wah neither understands nor cares about the nature of sociological research.

    She "thinks" that researching Jehovah's Witnesses means researching what The Watchtower has published. Simply reading the publications does NOT provide information as to what the individual JW believes, it merely shows what they have been "told" to believe by The Watchtower.

    Actual research would attempt to determine the actual beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness, this point appears to be lost both by Carolyn Wah and by the writer of the BOE letter above.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Carolyn Wah's has three main jobs:

    1. To present herself as an image of diveristy and equality on behalf of the WTS.

    2. Validate the existence of Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses as a 'religion' versus a billion dollar publishing firm.

    3. Child custody

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit