Verrry interesting. Check out what Hawking has behind Door Number Three.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/170435/1/Are-we-creating-the-Universe-as-we-move-along
BTS
Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God
by BurnTheShips 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Tuesday
No, it is not. The logic of the argument is that there was a non-contingent thing at the beginning of the chain of causality. A thing with no beginning. It does not say that there are no other non-contingent things.
OK cool, so due to the law of conservation of energy and the first law of thermodynamics matter is a non-contingent thing. Therefore it always existed, the reason that the world is here is because of the big bang which simply re-arranged this matter. Nothing was created, simply re-arranged. God does not have to come into play to CREATE anything.
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drwtsn32
Occam's Razor sides with that conclusion, Tuesday.
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BurnTheShips
OK cool, so due to the law of conservation of energy and the first law of thermodynamics matter is a non-contingent thing.
The laws of physics as we know them break down before the first Planck second. Besides, some argue that virtual particles break the First Law.
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Homerovah the Almighty
I think a spiritual god existed and created the earth and are solar system and after looking at what he created after awhile said sod it I'm going to try
somewhere else. He's more than likely went off to some far distant place revising his creations.
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drwtsn32
The laws of physics as we know them break down before the first Planck second. Besides, some argue that virtual particles break the First Law.
But virtual particles are created in pairs; the net energy change is zero.
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Caedes
"So you concede the thing exists? I have a name for it."
It's a non argument, since you can simply state that the singularity at the heart of the big bang is that first cause as easily as stating that it was a pink unicorn or yahweh or a canoe or whatever label you prefer.
Conceding that there may have been a first cause tells you nothing about what that cause may be and thus it is a non argument for the existence of god. A non-described first cause can sit at the start of a naturalistic universe as easily as it can at the start of a supernatural one.
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Tuesday
The laws of physics as we know them break down before the first Planck second. Besides, some argue that virtual particles break the First Law.
If this is the case then the laws of physics could've broken down in the right conditions which could've been the process right before the big, bang. No one knows why the laws of physics break down before the first planck second, so whatever the big, bang could've been without cause thereby breaking the laws of physics.
Now is that enough to show that special pleading is stupid, we can postulate all day and create special cases that make the world be made by anything. Can you please stop this stupid God arguments that solve nothing?
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BurnTheShips
No one knows why the laws of physics break down before the first planck second
Yes they do. Incredibly high density and temperature.
Now is that enough to show that special pleading is stupid
Well...it certainly shows that something is.
Can you please stop this stupid God arguments that solve nothing?
No. If it hurts you, turn away.
BTS
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Tuesday
Incredibly high density and temperature
You mean what could've been the case before the universe existed, when matter was clumped together in one giant mass?
Thanks, another reason why the big bang could've occured with no help from God almighty.
No. If it hurts you, turn away.
The reason I ask this is because this seems like some sort of personal vendetta that you MUST prove God scientifically. Or more accurately you need to prove that he can't be discounted. Certainly not that there's evidence to back a God, somehow lack of evidence is evidence. Which everyone else simply sees as lack of evidence. Regardless of whether God COULD live in some realm where the laws of physics do not apply to him, regardless of whether there is no evidence showing that he was not the cause for the universe existing, regardless of how many arguments you have here it does not PROVE anything. Wow, God could be the cause of the universe. Great, I don't care. Invisible pink unicorns could be the cause of the universe, friction from a millenia of matter rubbing together could be, Ben Stein could be, some giant child could be by turning on his video game (which is us). Speculate all day, until there is observable, verifiable, external(of the bible or other holy books) evidence you're pissing into the wind.