Darwin in Context

by hamilcarr 33 Replies latest social current

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    All classes of archaea, bacteria, and every other known free-living organism, meet all nine of the above criteria. Eliminate any one of the above nine requirements, and it remains to be demonstrated whether that system could remain "alive."

    RNA strands, DNA strands, prions, viroids, and viruses shall not be considered free-living organisms, since they fail to meet many of the above well-recognized characteristics of independent "life."

    You seem to introduce an additional distinction between "dependent" and "independent" life. How "dependent" life evolved into "independent" life (protobionts ---> prokaryotic cells) is well documented in evolutionary biology.

    Natura non facit saltum. We can't except to see the nine characteristics of life you enumerate spontaneously popping up out of the blue.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    ham

    You seem to introduce an additional distinction between "dependent" and "independent" life. How "dependent" life evolved into "independent" life (protobionts ---> prokaryotic cells) is well documented in evolutionary biology.

    Natura non facit saltum. We can't except to see the nine characteristics of life you enumerate spontaneously popping up out of the blue.

    I didn't "introduce" anything. You'll have to take those issues up with the foundation. It's their million bucks. If it were mine, I probably would make some changes.

    I'd love to know why they are keeping this from the public. The website (http://lifeorigin.org/rul_curr.htm) says "The Origin-of-Life Foundation, Inc. wishes to keep the project as quiet as possible within the scientific community."

    This is a genuine effort by evolutionists not a "creationist" trick. It's a 10 year old offer.

    Here's the list of judges. Do you see any "creationists? I don't.

    Name . Country . Organizational Affiliation

        Freeman J. Dyson, USA, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton
        A. Graham Cairns-Smith, SCOTLAND, University of Glasgow (ret),
        Jack W. Szostak, USA, Dept. of Molecular Biology, Massachusetts Gen. Hosp.
        Jeffrey Tze-Fei Wong, HONG KONG, Biochem., Hong Kong Univ.of Sci.& Tech.
        Charles H. Townes, USA, Physics Dept, University of California at Berkeley
        John D. Barrow, U.K., Appl Math & Theor Physics, Cambridge
        Pier Luigi Luisi, SWITZERLAND, Institut fur Polymere, ETH-Zurich
        Paul Davies, AUSTRALIA, Professor of Physics, Burnside, South Australia
        Werner R. Loewenstein, USA, Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory
        Paul Schimmel, USA, The Scripps Research Institute, Skaggs Institute
        Edward O. Wilson, USA, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard
        Hyman Hartman, USA, M.I.T.; Inst Adv Stud in Biol, Berkeley
        Robert Shapiro, USA, Department of Chemistry, New York University
        Guy Ourisson, FRANCE, Pres. Academy of Sciences, Centre de Neurochemie
        Christoph Adami, USA, California Institute of Technology
        J. Peter Gogarten, USA, Dept.of Molecular & Cell Biology, Univ.of Connecticut
        Koichiro Matsuno, JAPAN, Nagoaka Univ.of Technol., Dept.of Bioengineering
        Wolfram Thiemann, GERMANY, Biologie/Chemie, Universitat Bremen
        Massimo Di Giulio, ITALY, Internat Instit of Genetics & Biophysics, CNR
        Ronald R. Breaker, USA, Biology Department, Yale University
        Iluis Ribas de Pouplana, USA, TSRI, The Scripps Research Institute
        Kenneth H. Nealson, USA, JPL, Geol & Planetary Sciences, Caltech
        Noam Lahav, ISRAEL, The Hebrew Univ. of Jerusalem, Faculty of Agriculture
        Anthony D. Keefe, USA, Mol Biol, Mass Gen Hosp, Harvard Medical School
        George E. Fox, USA, Biochemical & Biophysical Sci, Univ. Houston
        Patrick Forterre, FRANCE, Inst. de Genetique et Microbiol., Universit‚ Paris
        Doron Lancet, ISRAEL, Dept Membrane Res & Biophys, Weizmann Inst Sci.
        Jacques Ninio, FRANCE, Lab Physique Statis, Ecole Normale Supervieure
        Peter E. Nielsen, DENMARK, Biomolecular Recognition, The Panum Institute
        Romeu Cardoso Guimaraes, BRAZIL, Biologica Gen, Inst. Ciencias Biol
        Robin D. Knight, USA, Dept. Ecology & Evolutionary Biology, Princeton U.
        Y. J. Pendleton, USA, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field
        Donald H. Burke, USA, Department of Biochemistry, Indiana University
        Edward J. Steele, Australia, Biol. Sciences, Univ. Wollongong
        Hans Kuhn, SWITZERLAND, Max Planck Institut Biophysikalische Chemie (ret)
        Hubert P. Yockey, USA, Aberdeen Proving Grounds (ret)
        Margaret A. Boden, Professor, U.K., Cognitive & Computing Sci, U. Sussex
        Liaofu Luo, CHINA, Department of Physics, Inner Mongolia University
        Klaus Dose, GERMANY, Institut Biochemie, JOH. Gutenberg-Universitat
        Oleg V. Davydov, REP. OF BELARUS, Belarussian Inst. Epidem. & Microbiology
        Wolfgang E. Krumbein, GERMANY, Geomicrobiology ICBN, Univ. Oldenburg
        Manfred Schidlowski, GERMANY, Biogeochem, Max-Planck-Institue
        KC Nicolaou, USA, Department of Chemistry, Scripps Research Institute
        P. W. Atkins, Ph.D., U.K., Lincoln College, Oxford University
        Akihiro Shimada, JAPAN, Institute of Applied Biochemistry, Univ.of Tsukuba
        Hakobu Nakamura, JAPAN, Professor (emeritus), Biological Inst., Konan Univ.
        Joseph L. Kirschvink, USA, Geology, California Institute of Technology
        Joseph A. Burns, USA, Planetary Sciences, Cornell University
        Kensei Kobayashi, JAPAN, Dept.of Chem.and Biotech, Yokohama Nat.Univ.
        Alexander S. Erokhin, CANADA, Organic Catalysis, Moscow State U.
        Bernd M. Rode, AUSTRIA, Inst for Inorganic & Theor Chem., U. Innsbruck
        Yuzuru Husimi, Prof., D. Sc., JAPAN, Functional Materials Sci, Saitama Univer
        Hiroaki Sawai, JAPAN, Faculty of Eng., Dept.of Chem., Gunma University
        Jean Heidmann, FRANCE, Astrophysique, Observatoire de Paris-Meudon
        Yu-Fen Zhao, CHINA, Bio-organic Phos Chem Lab, Tsinghua University
        Boris F. Poglazov, RUSSIA, Bach Institute of Biochemistry, Moscow
        J. I. Lunine, USA, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
        Vladimir A. Otroschenko, RUSSIA, Bach Inst Biochemistry, Leninsky Prospekt
        Anastassia Kanavarioti, USA, Biochemistry, Univ. of California SC
        Phillip S. Skell, USA, Organic Chemistry Prof Emeritus, Penn St
        Anatoly D. Altstein, MD, PhD, DrSc, RUSSIA, Viral Genetics, Inst. Gene Biol.
        Wolfgang M. Heckl, GERMANY, Crystallography, University Munchen
        Tairo Oshima, JAPAN, Life Sciences, Tokyo University
        Michael J. Russell, SCOTLAND, Geology & Applied Geology, Univ.of Glasgow
        Allan J. Hall, SCOTLAND, Dept of Archaeology, University of Glasgow
        Daniel Segre, USA, Membrane Res & Biophysics, Harvard University
        Saverio Alberti, ITALY, Head, Lab of Exper Oncology, CMNS
        Liliane Merle, FRANCE, Biopolymers & Membranes, U. Rouen CNRS
        David S. Wilson, USA, Molecular Biology, Harvard Medical School
        Avshalom C Elitzur, ISRAEL, Chemical Physics, Weizmann Institute of Science
        Hiroshi Mizutani, JAPAN, College of Bioresource Sciences, Nihon University
        Auguste Commeyras, FRANCE, Organic Chem, Universite de Montpellier II
        Vladimir N. Kompanichenko, RUSSIA, Instit for Complex Analysis, Khaborovsk
        Virginia Trimble, USA, Astronomy Department, University of Maryland
        Rocco L. Mancinelli, USA, NASA Ames Research Center, SETI Institute
        Alam T. Kamaluddin, INDIA, Professor, Dept.of Chemistry, Univ.of Roorkee
        Evgeny I. Klabunovskii, RUSSIA, Asymmetric Catalysis; Russian Acad. of Sci
        Vladimir A. Basiuk, MEXICO, Inst Ciencias Nucleares, UNAM
        Nathalie A. Cabrol, USA, Planetary Sciences, NASA Ames Research Center
        Daniel L. Gilbert, USA, NINDS, Unit on Ros, National Institutes of Health
        Vlado Valkovic, CROATIA, Institute Ruder Boskovic, Zagreb
        Mitchell K. Hobish, USA, Consulting Synthesist, Baltimore, MD
        Walter L. Bradley, USA, Mechanical Engineering, Texas A & M University
        Emanuel Margoliash, USA, Biological Sciences, University of Illinois
        Almaz A. Iskakov, KAZAKSTAN, Dept. of Medbiophysics, Medical Academy
        Arthur Chadwick, Ph.D., USA, Molecular Biology/Geology, SWAU
        Marina N. Fomenkova, USA, Astrobiology, University of California, San Diego
        Janice L. Bishop, USA, SETI Institute, NASA Ames Research Center
        Miloje M. Rakocevic, YUGOSLAVIA, Chemistry, University of Nis
        Vera Kolb, USA, Dept.of Chemistry, Univ.of Wisconsin-Parkside
        Mitchell D. Schulte, USA, NASA Ames Research Center, CA
        B. I. Kurganov, RUSSIA, A. N. Bach Inst of Biochemistry
        Olivier Toussaint, BELGIUM, Cellular Biochemistry and Biology, U. Namur
        Gavin W. Chan, USA, Earth and Planetary Sciences, Washington University
        Robert E. Blankenship, USA, Biochemistry, Arizona State University
        Paul Abell, USA, Dept.of Chemistry, Univ.of Rhode Island
        Yves-Henri Sanejouand, FRANCE, Centre de Recherche Paul Pascal
        Andrew S. Garay, USA, Dept.of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Texas A&M Univ.
        Farid Salama, USA, NASA Ames Research Center, CA
        John D. Sutherland, UK, Department of Chemistry, University of Manchester
        Shuguang Zhang, USA, Dept.of Biology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
        Dr. L. Allamandola, USA, NASA Ames Research Center
        Jan P. Amend, USA, Earth & Planetary Sci, Washington University
        James W. Brown, USA, Dept.of Microbiology, North Carolina State Univ.
        Ricardo Ferreira, BRAZIL, Departamento de Quimica Fundamental, UFPE
        Krishnan C. K. Nair, INDIA, Rad Biology Div, BhaBha Atomic Res Centre
        Donald E. Brooks, CANADA, Pathology, University of British Columbia
        S. Vijayakumar, USA, Department of Medicine, Columbia University
        Raik-Hiio Mikelsaar, ESTONIA, Genetics & Molecular Path Inst., Tartu Univ.
        Ricardo Amils, SPAIN, Biologia Molecular, Univer. Autonoma de Madrid
        Anastasios A. Tsonis, USA, Mathematical Sciences, Univ. Wisc-Milwauk
        Martino Rizzotti, ITALY, Dipartimento di Biologia, Padova
        Bernard Barbier, FRANCE, Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire, cNRS
        Charles B. Thaxton, USA, Natural Sciences, Charles University
        Thomas G. Waddell, USA, Dept.of Chemistry, Univ.of Tenn. at Chatanooga
        Bernd R.T. Simoneit, USA, College of Oceanic & Atmospheric Sci. Oregon St.U.
        Alain Figureau, FRANCE, Institut de Physique Nucleaire
        Stanley I. Goldberg, USA, Dept.of Chemistry, University of New Orleans
        Lajos Keszthelyi, HUNGARY, Biophysics, Hungarian Academy of Sciences
        Arvydas Tamulis, LITHUANIA, Head, T.M.E.R., Inst.Theoret.Phys.& Astron.
        J. M. Kaper, USA, Beltsville Agricul Res Center Retired
        Changfu Wei, USA, Isis Pharmaceuticals, Inc.
        Germinal Cocho, MEXICO, Instituto de fisica, UNAM
        Sergei A. Seleznev, KAZAKSTAN, Medical Biophysics, Med.Acad.,Astana
        Ragnar Osterberg, SWEDEN, Chemistry, The Swedish Univ. Agri. Sci
        H”rdur Kristjansson, ICELAND, Isteka-Lyfjaverslun Islands hf., Grens.
        V. Sitaramam, INDIA, Biotechnology Department, University of Poona
        Ricardo Garcia-Pelayo, SPAIN, Centro de Astrobiolligia, INTA
        John F. Stolz, USA, Dept.of Biological Sciences, Duquesne University
        Brian D. Lanoil, USA, Astrobiology, California Institute of Technology
        Lisa Y. Stein, USA, Biochemistry, California Institute of Technology
        James R. Lyons, USA, California Institute of Technology
        Lea Cox, USA, Jet Propulsion Lab, California Institute of Technology
        Roger R. Hill, UK, Resrch Dir., Dept.of Chemistry, The Open University
        D. H. Ardell, USA, Department of Biological Sciences, Stanford University
        Pierre Sonigo, MD, PhD, FRANCE, Genetique des Virus, Inst Cochin Gen Mol
        Andree C. Ehresmann, FRANCE, Faculte de Mathematiques et d'Informatique
        Georges Trinquier, FRANCE, Lab de Physique Quantique, IRSAMC-CNRS
        A. E. Lyubarev, RUSSIA, A. N. Bach Inst of Biochemistry
        Narcinda R. Lerner, USA, SETI Institute, NASA Ames Research Center
        V. J. Norris, FRANCE, Laboratory of Microbiology, Universite de Rouen
        Kawamura Kunio, JAPAN, Dept.of Applied Chem., Osaka Prefecture Univ.
        Rosemarie Swanson, USA, Dept.of Biochemistry, Texas A&M University
        Friedemann Freund, USA, NASA Ames Research Center, CA
        Michael R. Rampino, USA, Department of Biology, New York University
        Jean-Christophe Plaquevent, FRANCE, Univ. Rouen, Lab. Chimie Organique
        Mario Medugno, ITALY, Instit per la Pianificazione e Gestione
        J. Seb Gillette, USA, Department of Chemistry, Stanford University
        Timothy A. Kral, USA, Dept.of Biological Sciences, Univ.of Arkansas
        Martin A. Schoonen, USA, Dept.of Earth,& Space Sciences, State Univ. of N. Y.
        A. Hochberg, ISRAEL, Biological Chemistry, The Hebrew Univ of Jer
        Hans-Peter Herzel, GERMANY, Institut fur Theoretische Biologie
        Regis Courtin, FRANCE, DESPA./LAM, Observatoire de Paris-Meudon
        R. Holliday, AUSTRALIA, CSIRO Division of Molecular Sciences
        Emma L. Bakes, USA, NASA Ames Research Center
        Roger Douglas Keen, NEW ZEALAND, Mobil Oil (NZ) Ltd.
        Christof Bohler, SWITZERLAND, Fluka Chemie AG, Industriestrasse 25, Buchs
        Frank D. Drake, USA, SETI Institute, Mountain View, CA
        L Varetto, BELGIUM, Centre for Protein Engineering, University de Liege
        T. Greg Dewey, USA, Depart of Chemistry/Biochemistry, Univ of Denver
        Robert H. White, USA, Dept.of Biochemistry, Virginia Polytechnic Inst.
        Jean Schneider, FRANCE, Observatoire de Paris, Place Jules Janssen
        DS Dwyer, USA, Louisiana State University Medical Center
        Allan G. Lindh, USA, U.S. Geological Survey
        Pedro Miramontes, MEXICO, Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM, Cd. Universitaria
        Enrique Macia Barber, SPAIN, Fisica de Materiales, Ciudad Universitaria
        Janos K. Lanyi, USA, Dept.of Physiol.& Biophys., College of Med., Univ.CA
        M. B. Chaley, RUSSIA, Bioengineering, Russian Academy of Sciences
        G. Kurat, AUSTRIA, Mineralogische Abteilung; Naturhistorisches Museum Wien
        Panagiotis A. Tsonis, USA, Department of Biology, The University of Dayton
        D. J. Raine, U.K., Department of Physics and Astronomy, Univ. of Leicester
        Pier Luigi Orioli, ITALY, Dept. of Chemistry, Univ. of Florence
        Juli Pereto, SPAIN, Departament Bioquimica, Universitat de Valencia
        X. Xia, CHINA, Department of Ecology and Biodiversity, Univ. Hong Kong
        Kimiko Umemoto, CANADA, Vancover, BC Department of Chemistry, ICU
        Marco Franchi, ITALY, Animal Biology & Genetics, Univ. Florence
        Charles N. McEwen, USA, Chemistry Depart, E. I. Du Pont de Nemours
        Shijun Ren, USA, Pharmaceutical Sciences, Univ. Southern California
        M. A. Jimenez-Montano, MEXICO, Fisica y Matematicas, U. Americas/Puebla
        Iwona Mroz, POLAND, Faculty of Chemistry, University of Wroclaw
        Alfonso Jimenez-Sanchez, SPAIN, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Genetics
        Sebastian Mendez-Alvarez, SPAIN, Biol Fonamental, U. Autonoma de Barcelon
        W. Schutte, THE NETHERLANDS, Math & Nat Sciences, Leiden Observatory
        Harold P. Klein, USA, SETI Institute, Palo Alto, CA
        Eric J. Lien, USA, Dept. of Pharm. Sci, School of Pharmacy, USC
        James D. Bashford, AUSTRALIA, Physics Department, University of Tasmania
        Bruce N. Runnegar, USA, Dept. of Earth & Space Sciences, UCLA
        Lowell Owens, USA, Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, retired

      • BurnTheShips
        BurnTheShips
        Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Human Genome "

        Entropy inexorably increases in a closed system (at least this is what has always been observed), the biosphere is not a closed system, it receives energy from external inputs, the largest of which is the Sun.

        BTS

      • hooberus
        hooberus

        Lol genetic entropy. If anything the entropy should decrease because of energy input from the sun and geothermal activity from which life gets its energy. The biosphere is not a closed system.

        Entropy and thermodynamics sure are fancy sounding words though!

        Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Human Genome "

        Entropy inexorably increases in a closed system (at least this is what has always been observed), the biosphere is not a closed system, it receives energy from external inputs, the largest of which is the Sun.

        Next time you guys might want to do a little research before commenting on a book. http://creationontheweb.com/images/pdfs/tj/j21_1/j21_1_43-47.pdf Merely invoking the "sun"; "geothermal activity" etc.won't do much for this set of problems. (Even the top evolutionary geneticists haven't tried to use that for this.)

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