No offense, but the WTS dogma on disfellowshiping stems from the Apostle Paul's admonition to "remove the man for your midst" and various oblique references to "turning away" from the faith, and not on how the Jews treated Jesus.
Apostasy from JWs? That's not what the Bible says...hmmmm
by Awakened at Gilead 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
yknot
I like the explanation from Job..... one who is turning from God.
-
V
The Watchtower routinely quotes Job 13:16 as an example of how to deal with apostates:
Rather, imitate God’s response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: “Before him no apostate will come in.”—Job 13:16.
WT 2/15/2004 p. 28
But the glaring contradiction is that Jehovah does tolerate apostate association...in the very same book of the Bible!
(Job 1:7-8) . . .Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan:. . .
the very first apostate, Satan.
WT 5/1/2000 page 9
-
yadda yadda 2
Excellent point V!! Yes, Jehovah still communicated with Satan, the first and arch 'apostate', and even more, he listened to his arguments and allowed his theory to be tested.
Actually, there are different shades of meaning for what an 'apostate' is. In broad terms a former member of any religion who turns against it and attacks it can be said to be apostate. It doesn't have to be apostacy against 'true worship' as such. It's more about the attitude and mentality of the person leaving their former religious group. Certainly JW's abuse the term by saying that anyone who merely questions or shows dissent and leaves the religion in good conscience is an 'apostate' against true worship. They harshly and unjustly judge many otherwise good who simply choose to leave the organisation but still love Jehovah and the Bible and otherwise maintain moral Christian lives.
-
passwordprotected
An apostate is literally someone who renounces a religious or political belief system. The Elder's book states that the beliefs in question include those beliefs 'unique to Jehovah's Witnesses'.
When you consider that JWs believe that the GB is God's sole channel of communication on earth, deciding that you do not believe that is acting in an apostate way, you're standing away from or renouncing that unique JW belief.
It probably hasn't been since around 1981 that the WTS properly outlined and defined what apostasy is. To me, this shows that they are keeping their options open.
If you no longer believe;
- 144,000 is a literal number and is the full quantity of Christians who go to heaven
- Jesus appointed the WTS as the 'faithful and discreet slave' class in 1919
- Jesus mediates only for the 144,000
- the Bible explicitly talks about a 'great crowd' of 'other sheep'
- salvation comes through association with the 'faithful and discreet slave' class
you're standing away from or renouncing beliefs unique to JWs and are, by their own definition, an apostate.
Slight tangent; I pointed out to my mother recently that the Bible, to JWs, is an apostate book. -
insearchoftruth
Passwordprotected said:
Slight tangent; I pointed out to my mother recently that the Bible, to JWs, is an apostate book. Slight tangent; I pointed out to my mother recently that the Bible, to JWs, is an apostate book.
What train of thought did you use when making that statement to your mother??
-
passwordprotected
The scripture I was thinking of was Matt8:11. There are others, particularly the ones that say Jesus was worshiped and the need to be born again.
-
Awakened at Gilead
@ Danielp:
I am well aware of the concept of dfing as found in the Bible (although the specific word does not appear).
But this thread was about how the Bible uses the term "apostasy". It is invariably talking about apostasy from Moses or the Jews. Only one instance discusses apostasy from Christianity, and refers to the "man of lawlessness" (which we know that the WTS associates with the clergy).
So my point is that the word "apostate" should not Biblically be used to describe us, especially by self-righteous JWs who want to denigrate us by using the term with all of that term's JW baggage.
-
cameo-d
(Acts 21:21) 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs.
So Christianity was called an apostasy from Moses by Judaizer opponents.. hmmm...Bingo. Why do you think Jesus came specifically to speak to the Jews?
They were not so much a "special" people as they were a "special needs" people.
Abraham, Moses, Jacob..... seems there was something very wrong in what they were teaching people. Jesus came to straighten them out.
Then they said to Paul, "Brother, you can see that many thousands of our people have become believers. And they think it is very important to obey the law of Moses. 21 They have heard about your teaching, that you tell our people who live among the nations to leave the law of Moses. They have heard that you tell them not to circumcise their children and not to obey customs.
They caused all the people to be upset and grabbed Paul. 28 They shouted, "People of Israel, help us! This is the man who goes everywhere teaching against the law of Moses, against our people, and against this Temple.
According to this scripture, it seems that the Apostles were the first APOSTATES. They were in opposition of the things that had been taught by Moses.