Disfellowshipping and Shunning, what are some good refutations.....wife BS

by insearchoftruth 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • insearchoftruth

    Bible Study 9/8/2008 – supposed to be ch. 2

    My wife is asking about her mother’s being disfellowshipping and asking why her baptized sister can not talk to her…..I think this really bothers my wife a lot. The sister is trying to say that one should not want to be associated with those who are no longer one of the JWs. Wife is asking if her mother were to apologize about the matter if she would have been allowed to remain a member of the congregation, would she be expelled….

    All depends on what the transgression is. In some cases she may not have been expelled (she was not willing to admit that her mother has committed adultery). Wife is asking about the public announcement of someone being expelled. Sister’s daughter is saying that sometimes the specifics are not discussed, but they will make a statement that things are handled and let it go from there.

    Her mother is saying that she does not care about Jehovah…the reason for disfellowshipping is to keep the evil association.

    Wife said if her sister wanted to call her mother and say I hope she is doing well, can that be done….sister is trying to work around this comment, they don’t want to tell my wife NO because this is really bothering her A LOT!!!! Is this really a rule? If I keep going and get baptized, and my mother is still expelled, what would be my procedure I would have to follow. The sister is saying that if the mother finds out from someone else she would want to be a member again. Wife is REALLY bothered by this. The sister is saying that her mother would really feel bad if her children could not talk to her…..this is such a disgusting aspect of the JWs..this may be a great thing to continue to discuss with my wife, or to have others do the same.

    Daughter is trying to compare this to discipline in a house……if a child misbehaves and is given the boot, it would hurt, but things would get rough and the kid would come back, most people would be wanting to come back and be remorseful. Would you be willing to just welcome the child back and be willing to do the things with them…there are limits to what one would do….been here for 20 minutes, still not on the bible teach book….

    Jehovah does not like to see people gone, but when the child wants to come back they will be welcomed back with open arms. This disfellowshipping and shunning is the only way to bring folks back to the fold…how sadistic this practice is. Those who just do what they want to do do it without Jehovah on their side……not easy.

    Her aunts are doing wrong by supporting her mother….one even supports her mother with what she has done and she blames it on her father….her aunts are baptized.

    Roxana, remember that everyone (I never liked my aunts) is not making the correct decisions on what Jehovah wants, Jehovah has principles and laws and not everyone can see these principles and ultimately we need to be serving Jehovah and not our husbands, our families, our children and live by the words of Jehovah….

    My wife likes the way the daughter explains things and my wife says she agrees with things…..

    Daughter, it takes a lot of personal love for Jehovah to be able to apply these principles, but one must remember that his way is the best way…..shunning is a hard thing. One can not associate with folks that are disfellowshipped. We do not associate with the folks that are disfellowshipped because we love them and when they come back we welcome them so very much back to the group. Remember that by this action we may be bringing someone back to Jehovah.

    Due to the aunts she will not see how this is supposed to be. Folks that are close to the situation do not see what it is. Knowing the relationship, the past history, mom and this one aunt were always the worst enemies.

    Just about everyone on my mother’s side is a JW, and she just told the sister she may want to go back to the Spanish congo…..she feels more comfortable with the Spanish congo and she will probably go to the Spanish congregation.

    I have a friend who has been a JW for many years…Ada (but she used a fake name), she got married and went to the Spanish congo with his wife and that is how he learned Spanish (in six months).

    Now the sister is trying to get her to stay with the English congregation.

    My wife feels that she understands the practice of shunning/disfellowshipping.

    There may be something else going on with my mom. This is quite the conversation, hopefully a good delay to the study. Need to ask why this is a good and loving provision, show it in the Bible?? Is my mother going through menopause (the daughter and sister say this is very possible).

    My father is trying to get back in, he still goes to the meetings, he knows what his problem is and he is trying to do something about it.

    She is reading a scripture on shunning, if anyone is an adulterer, a fornicator, an idolator, stop mixing with these people, keep them from the congo. You can not associate with them in the congo….what is the scripture, help needed, please provide this to me?!?!

    The daughter is talking about how since a sick man was not ‘in the truth’ some of the sons and daughters did not help him, but that was most likely an extreme situation.

    Disfellowshipping and shunning is a very sensitive subject. The sister says that the JWs are not cold, they need to do the correct thing….what a joke this is. Most of the time the shunned know and they will try to make the JWs feel that they are in the wrong, they are the hateful party, but people do not understand what the JWs are really like, they do not understand just how wicked the world really is and the need for it.

    The meeting yesterday was really geared towards JWs. This was just a series of talks and they are really much better if one is in the ‘truth’. The CO will give the exact same talk all over the place….this is such a wonderful trait of the JWs.

    Any more questions?

    Now that I have started to study the bible, what is it that calls one to do this?
    Actually was going into the Mary Kay business, God 1st, Family 2nd, Career 3rd.

    I want to live my life like this, in the past was turned off by my family and she does not want to be like them, but she needs to either be in or out. Even all the things she has done her conscience has bothered her. Christmas has bothered her with the other side of the family, it is not what I believe in and here I am doing it. I have my reasons why even though not the right reason. The hardest thing is Christmas, she has already thought about it and will need to really put her heart in it, it is going to be very hard at Christmas, she does not know how she is going to do it this year. (Talking quite soft now, they are trying to make me not hear). What about the gift giving, please don’t ahead of time? Usually in the world, they expect something, but they don’t expect anything. How do I handle this? It is ok to accept a gift, but not as a Christmas gift…..she is getting very soft counsel on what to do, I can not hear what they are saying. They are poking fun at the Christmas tradition right now. Reminds her of the movie sound of music and the old guy just sort of goes along….I believe they are telling her to just sort of go along and how she should just tell folks how the scripture does not allow this (Rev. 3:16). This is about someone being lukewarm, if not hot, might as well be cold.

    Another reason besides Mary Kay is (I have not been selling very much, if anything, not the time between school and everything (she is only taking two classes)). How do you sell it, go door to door, sell to friends, how??? Now she is giving the Mary Kay explanations. Everyone already has a cosmetic they like.

    I have always had this in my heart as well, have kept in touch with Rhonda (the first study sister, more like a mom than anything, she is so comfortable). This sister is older than Rhonda.

    There are many things I saw growing up that made me detest, it really put me off. With my mother we did not have a good relationship, since we were eight. The sister is trying to draw out of my wife what is going on with the relationship, what were the problems.

    Even after I got married, mom was very manipulative and always did what mom advised and she has broken this bond and is becoming her own person. It felt good to her to break free of the bonds. I was thirty when I broke the bonds with mom, and I am going to make my own decisions. A lot of the decisions I made were out of spite or rebellion. It felt really good to break this free and I have maintained a relationship that has felt good, on my own terms. I would get off the phone and be irritated.

    Only one sister (the half sister) who is in the JWs. The rest are not. The youngest is not a baptized JW, she feels bad for her youngest brother, but can not take the responsibility.


    She is telling the JWs that Jehovah may be what she needs to help forgive her siblings, especially the youngest sister.

    Now she is asking how our son is doing in school. Next week we will start with chapter 2.

    Study over....good....HELP!!!!

    Need some disfellowshipping information.

  • V

    Just released this video, might have some interesting points. Specifically deals with children being baptized and then held under the threat of disfellowshipping. Holding a person responsible for a decision made at 9-10 years old, even at the age of 16-17 is harsh indeed.


  • jwfacts

    There is a long discussion on disfellowshipping at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm, explaining why it is unchristian.

    The Scripture you are after is

      1 Corinthians 5:11 “But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.””
        The point of this Scripture is that if a person is claiming to be a Christian (a brother) and persisting in wrongdoing they should not be socialised with, so as to show such was not acceptable Christian behaviour. It should not be extended to people that are no longer recognised as brothers, nor extended to not even offering a greeting to such a person. It most certainly should not extend to family.
        Jesus showed time and again how wrongdoers should be treated and his example goes in direct contrast to Witnesses. Jesus ate with wrongdoers. The Good Samaritan was an example of an "apostate" Samaritan being a better brother than a Jew. The story of the Prodigal Son shows the father racing to greet his sinful son with open arms, not interegating him as to whether he was repentant.
      • besty
      • insearchoftruth
      • MissingLink

        Don't let them squirm out of this one. Show them the articles (nicely bundled together in the new "Keep Yourself In Gods Love" rule book) that say that there should be NO contact with family members who are DF. I shunned my sister for 17 years before I woke up. There is 0% chance she would ever return to the JWs. The idea of punishing them to make them repent only works for the ones who feel guilty for breaking a rule they believed in. For the others, once they're gone, they're gone. The only thing they're doing by continuing to force you to shun these people is isolating you from outside influences (exactly what a cult is supposed to do). How sad would it be to never talk to these people again, your family. To let them grow old and die without spending time with them. Just because of a difference of opinion about religion.

      • insearchoftruth

        I think I heard the sister talk about this new book last night, I have a pdf of it, but need to get my wife to get a copy so I can read it when she is away and ask her what she thinks of it.....Any ideas how to accomplish?

      • MissingLink

        If you cant get a legit copy of the book, you should at least be able to get a Watchtower CD. The book is just a "best hits" from the CD. Use your PDF to guide your wife to the articles on the CD.

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