by Mary 18 Replies latest watchtower scandals
most witnesses would say that they do not tolerate predators because he has been DF'ed. they would actually use this as a POSITIVE example of their policies.
oh, and that watchtower paragraph on sunday made me turn red at the hall. its unbelievable to me that they have the intense hubris to print that.
I have no more time for the J W hypocrisy than anyone else, but I do not see a specific reference that the two friends who spoke up for him were Witnesses. The perp's mother said that he attended J W meetings and built halls (which makes him a regular dub in good standing) but apparently he has been d/f'd..
Still bad enough though. You never know who you may be sitting next to at the Hall these days...
Barbara Roya said she let Leonard Roya back in the house because she thought she didn't know the whole story, they had been married 18 years, she had to think of her sons, and she thought he could be treated and become a good father.(emphasis mine)(in other words, she's a spineless wimp who would rather take the path of least resistance and continue to live with a pedophile, rather than do the moralistic thing and kick his ass to the curb)
Wow it must be nice sitting in that glass ceiling so high above everyone. So let me get this straight she is married to someone for 18 years. A claim (and yes at that point in time it was a claim) that this man did this, she naturally assumed that there was more to the story. She then like almost 99% of the human population in love wanted to try to help him change. I think it takes a lot of spine to forgive someone and want to help them.
Me and you never see eye to eye on this stuff, so I don't know why I'm trying to argue this.
Burger Time said: So let me get this straight she is married to someone for 18 years. A claim (and yes at that point in time it was a claim) that this man did this, she naturally assumed that there was more to the story.
Uh, no, by this time it was not just an unsubstantiated claim. The scumbag admitted what he did:
"....Roya pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting his victim, at times using a gun or knife, over two years starting in 2004 when the victim was a minor...........A Williamstown man was sentenced in Vermont District Court in Chelsea to three to 20 years in prison Wednesday for molesting and raping a female relative but not before friends and family members – who acknowledged his crime.... "
That's pretty straight forward don't you think?
"....She then like almost 99% of the human population in love wanted to try to help him change. I think it takes a lot of spine to forgive someone and want to help them....."
Sorry, I don't agree. First of all, there's plenty of documented evidence that pedophiles don't change. It's not like he had a problem with drinking or with drugs. If that was the case, then I'm all for trying to help someone change. The same cannot be said for child molesters. In addition, this guy is clearly a danger to both his family and the public, even by his wife's testimony where she said he was "obsessed with the victim", was "dangerous" and that he is capable of great violence at the mere suggestion that he needed help:
"....Leonard Roya threw his lunch box at a door and put his fist in her face and said, "I could punch you right now," Barbara testified........"....in February 2007, Roya followed the victim and her husband into the parking lot of the Berlin Mall..........Roya grabbed the man's neck, leaving marks, court records say...."
Ya, I can see how letting this creep come back would be a positive thing for her and her kids. Letting a man who is a violent sexual predator live at your house after he has already admitted to raping another family member, is just insane. First of all, she's putting her own kids in a very dangerous position by letting a pedophile have easy access to them. We complain that the WTS continuously let known peophiles roam the KH's where they had regular contact with little kids. How exactly is this any different??
No, like many others (a few that I know personally), they'd rather live with a child molestor rather than stand on their own two feet, because they don't want the "stigma of divorce" and it would mean that they'd have to go get a job. Since the average Witness woman is not well educated, their job prospects might not seem that great. However, this is 2008, not 1908 and there are plenty of government sponsored programs to help a woman get trained in a certain field so that they can get a decent paying job. It might not be easy, but moralistically, it is far preferable than to send out the message to your own kids that it's okay to live with someone who rapes minors with brutal violence.
Me and you never see eye to eye on this stuff, so I don't know why I'm trying to argue this.
You're right, I have no idea why you're trying to argue that this woman isn't a spineless wimp when clearly, she is.
I don't view her as a spineless wimp for trying to stand by her husband as long as she can. That whole vow thing says "till death do us part". Rather or not pedophiles will change or not has no bearing in hoping they might change or standing by your spouse for support. Again I point out it would have been much easier for her just to leave him, then stand by him.
That whole vow thing says "till death do us part". Rather or not pedophiles will change or not has no bearing in hoping they might change or standing by your spouse for support.
Burgertime ask yourself this simple question: Do you think it's smart for a woman to expose her children to a violent pedophile on a daily basis? Would you let your children visit a man who you knew was a child molester and a violent one at that? Would you let them stay over night? No? Didn't think so. Yet you're trying to claim that a woman should stay with such a person, exposing her children to almost certain molestion because she vowed "till death do us part"?? Are you serious???
Again I point out it would have been much easier for her just to leave him, then stand by him.
No it is not. And that is precisely the point I'm making. It would not be "easier for her to leave" because like many women, they think that having any man is better than no man at all, even if he's a pedophile. She stays because it's more convenient for her than if she left. Where exactly are you getting that it would be "easier for her to leave"??? I know several women who have done this very thing. They stay because they have the idea "where would I go?" This is not being strong, it's being spineless and taking the path of least resistence. 50 or 100 years ago, a woman's options were extremely limited and for the most part, they had no choice but to stay. My grandmother's step-father attempted to molest her when she was 10 years old. When she told her mother about it, her mother beat her for "telling lies". Now why would she do that? Because she did not want to confront the fact that her husband was a slimeball. She was dependent on him for food, clothing and shelter and if she had to sacrifice her daughter, then that's what had to be done. This, unfortunately, happened all too often in days gone by simply because a woman have extremely limited options.
The same cannot be said today and for any woman to let a man back into the house after she knows that he has sexually abused a child, is inexcusable.
I don't see why your so angry at the wife...looks like typical attitude from a spouse JW or not. Humans want to believe other humans will change. It doesn't make her spineless or a villain. Just another victim.
Many, if not most, survivors of abuse are often more angry at the non-abusing parent. Why? Lots of reasons, usually it's because the non-offending parent is deep in denial (as apparently this woman was), ignoring evidence of abuse. Sometimes literally closing the door so that they do not have to know or see what is happening. They do so because they don't want to know. Common phrase: "Everyone knows ________ (pedophile) is bad, but you (non-offender) are supposed to be different!"
In my own case my mother stood in the doorway while her father raped me. She watched, turned her back and walked away while I pleaded to her for help.
She's not a victim. She's as evil as the pedophile. To see evil taking place, to know it and then turn your back to it, ignoring it and allowingit to continue makes you every bit as evil. Such a person is an accomplice.
Very often women like this woman stick with the pedophile because they want to be taken care of and are willing to give up their kids to him for a home and the appearance of marriage. They are often needy, codependent and afraid of being on their own.
Chris
In my own case my mother stood in the doorway while her father raped me. She watched, turned her back and walked away while I pleaded to her for help.
Even though we know that this has happened far too often, it breaks my heart to read this. WTF is wrong with people.
Very often women like this woman stick with the pedophile because they want to be taken care of and are willing to give up their kids to him for a home and the appearance of marriage. They are often needy, codependent and afraid of being on their own.That is exactly the point I've been trying to make. A point which Burgertime doesn't seem to understand.
Well good news, fast forward 40 years, I've gotten back in touch with my grandmother (that pedophile's ex-wife). She's dying, but fortunately her hospice is only a few minutes from my office. So every other day I go sit with her for an hour after work.
She told me she was sorry for what he did, and sorry for not helping or trying to stop it. She said she was sorry I had a "bad time" to use her words. I'm not sayinig this to make this about me (and I am sorry for for hijacking this thread), but my point in mentioning this is it took her 40 years to really begin to acknowledge what was happening. That's how much in denial she was then. It was too horrific for her to deal with, so she shut her eyes and her mind to the thing. That is how powerful, and dangerous, denial is.
As for the pedophile, no they do not change. They're not alcoholics. They do not see anything wrong with having sex with a child. They are self-absorbed, narcissitic with zero impulse control and absolutely no moral center.
But just for the sake of argument, assume for a moment that there are pedophiles who really do want to change. It's possible. Consider this -- if an alcoholic falls off the wagon, he gets drunk. If a pedophile falls off the wagon, a child gets raped.
The woman in this story welcomed back a man who willingly admitted being a perp. This is very unusual and very rare. For her to allow this person back in the house with two children is beyond foolish. It is a woman who is deep in denial and wants to see what she wants to see rather than what is there.
