Doctrine on JWs marrying non-JWs?

by Margie 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  Margie

  Hi again everyone. I haven't been here in a while, but it's nice to see so many old faces (posters).

  Anyway, I am wondering if anyone knows what doctrine exists, if any, on JWs marrying non-JWs. My sister, a JW, is getting married to a non-JW in a couple of months. My mother said that she won't attend my sister's wedding, but my father and brother (both JWs) will attend. According to my JW family members, attendance at my sister's wedding is a "conscience matter," and my mother's conscience leads her in a different direction from my father's and brother's. My mom said that by not "marrying in the lord," my sister is breaking a vow she took to Jehovah when my sister was baptised at the ripe old age of 15. I asked my mom whether she wasn't attending my sister's wedding in order to protect her own salvation (ha!) or whether she was doing it to try to dissuade my sister from getting married at all. My mom gave sort of a mush-mouthed answer that I took to mean that my mom hasn't really thought it through, which probably means that what's at the root of my mom's decision is a need to passive aggressively register her disapproval with my sister's choice.

  First, does anyone know if "marrying in the lord" really means marrying a baptized JW? I'm sure that's what everyone *thinks* it means that, but does it really? And what's with my mom's attendance being a conscience matter? My sister apparently isn't getting disfellowshipped for marrying a non-JW, so I'm confused about why my mom thinks that her attendance at my sister's wedding would be the same as my mom's attendance at a disfellowshipped person's wedding. That seems illogical. I know there must be about a million arguments that could be made for why my mom is wrong, so if anyone can suggest others, I'm all ears.

  Thanks all.
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  WingCommander

  Well, most JW's will use the scripture stating "not to be unevenly yoked," as a prerequisite and justification for not attending a JW relatives wedding ceremony. However, the completely ignore the fact that Moses married a non-Jewish pagan woman, and I remember him being pretty favorably looked upon by God.

  JW's are such assholes. Instead of being able to bend, they are as rigid as can be, as well as unreasonable and argumentative. Nutters, all of them. Can't believe I bought into all of these pharasitical rules for so long.

  - Wing Commander
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  yknot

  *** w02 5/1 p. 17 Jehovah Hates the Course of Treachery ***

  MarryinganUnbeliever

  15

  Some today might reason: ‘The person I’m attracted to is very nice. In time, he (or she) will likely accept true worship.’ Such thinking confirms the inspired warning: "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate." (Jeremiah 17:9) God’s view of marrying an unbeliever is expressed at Malachi 2:12: "Jehovah will cut off each one that does it." Thus, Christians are urged to marry "only in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 7:39) Under the Christian system of things, a believer is not "cut off" for marrying an unbeliever. Still, if the unbeliever stays in his or her unbelief, what will happen to that one when God shortly brings this system to an end?—Psalm 37:37, 38.

  ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  ***w015/15pp.20-21DivineGuidanceforSelectingaMarriageMate***

  ‘MarryOnlyintheLord’

  16

  Jehovah’s direction for Christians is very clear: ‘Marry only in the Lord.’ (1 Corinthians 7:39) Christian parents and their children may be tested in this regard. How so? Young people may wish to get married, but available partners may be lacking within the congregation. At least that is how it seems. There may be fewer available men than women in a certain locality, or there may be no one deemed suitable in the area. A young man who is not a dedicated member of the congregation may show interest in a young Christian woman (or vice versa), and there is pressure to compromise on the standards that Jehovah has set. Under such circumstances, it would be good to reflect on the example of Abraham. One way that he maintained his fine relationship with God was by seeing to it that his son Isaac married a true worshiper of Jehovah. Isaac did the same in the case of his son Jacob. This took effort by all involved, but it pleased God and resulted in his blessing.—Genesis 28:1-4.

  17

  In a few cases, the unbeliever eventually became a Christian. However, marriages to unbelievers have often proved disastrous. Those unevenly yoked do not share the same beliefs, standards, or goals. (2 Corinthians 6:14) This can have a detrimental effect on communication and on marital happiness. For instance, one Christian woman greatly bemoaned the fact that after an upbuilding meeting, she could not go home and discuss spiritual things with her unbelieving mate. More important, of course, ‘marrying in the Lord’ is a matter of loyalty to Jehovah. When we comply with God’s Word, our hearts do not condemn us, for we are doing what is "pleasing in his eyes."—1 John 3:21, 22.

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  When marriage is considered, the virtue and spirituality of the prospective mate should be of primary concern. A Christian personality, along with love for God and whole-souled devotion to him, is of far greater value than physical attractiveness. Divine approval is enjoyed by those who appreciate and fulfill their obligation to be spiritually strong marriage partners. And the greatest strength a couple can achieve comes from mutual devotion to the Creator and full acceptance of his guidance. In this way Jehovah is honored, and the marriage begins on a solid spiritual footing that will contribute to an enduring union.

  ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  To the WTS it means marry only JWs or those about to be dunked as JWs......but it is a growing occurance to marry outside of the JWs.

  Such a decision is frowned upon, she won't be allowed to marry in the KH.

  Attendance will be a MOC, your mom is entitled to those reasons also the place of the wedding might be of consideration.

  What does she think of the groom personally?
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  Margie

  First, thanks WingCommander and yknot for responding. I agree, WingCommander, that the unwillingness to bend is, um, noteworthy. I don't understand how my mom thinks she's creating a good impression of the JW faith on potential sheep like my future brother-in-law. I should tell her that in my opinion, she's stumbling him.

  yknot, my mom said that she thinks highly of her future son-in-law and intends to accept him fully as one of her children once he and my sister are married. This makes no sense because she's saying, in effect, that she will accept their marriage, but she cannot accept their wedding, not to mention that fact that if I were him, I'd have no interest whatsoever in being accepted as one of her children given the way she's treating one that she already has. Good grief. My sister isn't planning to get married in a KH, so there's no problem there.
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  Atlantis

  1965 Make Sure Book p.332 "Christians to Marry Only Christians" "Worshiper of Jehovah should "not" consent to marriage of son or daughter to unbeliever" " Marrying unbelievers can lead to God's disapproval."
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  Princess Daisy Boo

  Hi Margie

  I cant really quote you on doctrine, but I can tell you my little story. I was a baptised JW who started dating a non JW. I got into all sorts of trouble with the elders, from being councilled to eventually being marked. After a few months, I moved out of my parents home into my own place and just stopped going to meetings at which time the elders, but not my parents, stopped harassing me. After a couple of years of dating, we decided to get married.

  My parents advised that they would not attend my wedding if it took place in a church or was conducted by a minister or preacher from any other religion, and obviously since I was no longer attending meetings and my husband was not a dub, we could not have a KH wedding or have an elder marry us (not that I even considered this option). My mother wanted us to have a civil ceremony. My mother in law (an anglican) was highly unhappy at the thought of a civil ceremony. What a performance! Eventually we found a chaplain of the local emergency services who was willing to perform a ceremony which sorted of complied with both mother's wishes. Only problem was that he was not a marriage officer! Luckily my husband's uncle is a retired magistrate and he offered to do the legal bit at the wedding venue. It worked out quite well - both parents attended and were reasonably happy.

  The next issue was at the reception. My father obviously did not propose a toast in his speech, whereas my huband and his best man did - my parents did not raise their glasses which my in laws thought was very rude.

  It was quite a performance - but well worth it! 8 years later, we are still happily married. If I did it all again, I am sure I would not give a stuff what either of the parents thought and worry only about making my and my husband's wedding dreams come true!
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  oompa

  First, does anyone know if "marrying in the lord" really means marrying a baptized JW? I'm sure that's what everyone *thinks* it means that, but does it really?

  Sounds like it means marrying someone who either believes in the lord....or "the lord" is used in the cermony...period!!! So prove me wrong already. It means what you want it to actually...there is no explanation...and being baptized...jw or not is not mentioned..............oompa
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  mustang

  My mom said that by not "marrying in the lord," my sister is breaking a vow she took to Jehovah when my sister was baptised at the ripe old age of 15.

  Interestering; here are sample Baptismal Vows. This is based on the many discussions of the closing of the loophole of the Holy Spirit (vague entity) versus God's Spirit Directed Organization (tm) [tangible corporate entity]:

  Baptismal Vowes

  By LittleToe

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/89818/1.ashx

  February 15, 1964 Watchtower, pg 127:

  1 Have you repented of sin with such restitution as you are able, and are you trusting in the merit of Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins and the basis of your justification?
  2 Have you made a full consecration of yourself with all the powers that you possess, talent, money, time, influence, all to the Lord, to be used faithfully in His service, even unto death?"

  May 1, 1973 Watchtower, pg 280:

  1 Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation precedes from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
  2 On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  June 1, 1985 Watchtower, p30:

  1 On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  2 Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  I'm sorry if I can't see it, but it appears to me that Mom's tieing the Baptism to the marriage is a stretch.

  Mustang
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  jgnat

  As the wife of a JW (we married secretly when he was working on reinstatement) I think I can speak on some of the natural consequences. Really, the easiest thing to do is to elope and not tell anyone. The elders will gnash their teeth buth there's nothing they can do about it. Marrying a non-JW is not a disfellowshipping offence. Instead, they will present the JW with possible dire consequences on their ultimate demise, and remove any priveleges the poor sap might be saddled with.

  First, does anyone know if "marrying in the lord" really means marrying a baptized JW? I'm sure that's what everyone *thinks* it means that, but does it really?

  Yes. Though I am a regular, Church-attending Christian and a Sunday School teacher, I am considered an "unbeliever".

  And what's with my mom's attendance being a conscience matter? My sister apparently isn't getting disfellowshipped for marrying a non-JW, so I'm confused about why my mom thinks that her attendance at my sister's wedding would be the same as my mom's attendance at a disfellowshipped person's wedding.

  Your mom cannot be seen to be endorsing the union.

  That seems illogical.

  Um, yeah. I don't know what you can do about it though. If your mom is entrenched, she's entrenched. In a quiet moment you might remind her that her actions now will have long-lasting consequences in her relationship with her future son-in-law.

  I think yknot's quotes sums up the society's ambivalent stand very well:

  Under the Christian system of things, a believer is not "cut off" for marrying an unbeliever. Still, if the unbeliever stays in his or her unbelief, what will happen to that one when God shortly brings this system to an end?—Psalm 37:37, 38. w02 5/1 p. 17 Jehovah Hates the Course of Treachery

  The local JW's consider my ultimate demise to be a given. By association, also, my husband's standing is also put to question. In other words, he can marry me and not be disfelloshipped, but he may ultimately die!
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  mustang

  I should tell her that in my opinion, she's stumbling him.

  Good idea!!!

  Mustang