Peace be with you!
Joseph, you still insist:
I just showed you where. There are other verses as well. He even verified this by saying in the very next verse: 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Such things were still included in the Law and James was still obligating Gentiles to keep parts of it. James did not correct such thinking until finally Hebrews was written and James wrote his letter to the Jews that followed him. Christians do not keep the Law as it impales the Christ again as the scriptures teach: Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This is something quite different from knowing right from wrong and doing things for such reasons. The scriptures show that it was Law and not good behavior that James was forcing upon the Apostle Paul.
I don't see anywhere James forcing Gentiles to keep the Law. The text talks about BELIEVERS from a Gentile background. I already told you that real believers love to keep the Law, the WHOLE Law.
And I also don't see where the Scripture ever said that the advice that James AND the elders gave to Paul was wrong.
You have a large imagination. But make sure you do not add to the Word of God.
Your following words clearly show that you don't even know what the use of the Law is:
Joseph responds: Does this mean that we must keep this Law then? No! While it was in effect for Israel it served as a means of salvation for the forgiveness of sins but no longer.
No, it is not that we MUST keep the Law. It is that we LOVE to keep the Law. The Law is now written in our hearts.
And, no, the Law has not saved anyone from the beginning of creation until now, not even the children of Israel. The Law cannot bring for you forgiveness of your sins, and here is the clear use of the Law:
"for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." ( Romans 3:20 )
That's the main use of the Law: the knowledge of sin. By the Law, you know that you are a sinner, but the Law cannot save you. That's why the same verse says:
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." ( Romans 3:20 )
NO FLESH can be justified before God and have the forgiveness of sins by the works of the Law, not even the Jews, because through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
You may say: No, but Abraham COULD be justified by the Law! The Word answers you: "For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."" ( Romans 4:3 )
You may ask: But how about those who lived AFTER the Law was given? Here you go:
"just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
"BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."" ( Romans 4:6-8 )
David lived after the Law was given, but he says that justification before God is by faith alone.
So the Law was never a means of Salvation for the forgiveness of sins! The GOSPEL is that power that saves:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." ( Romans 1:16 )
You said:
Of course Paul could use this in his defense but Paul did not say that he was still observing it as James demanded.
Paul respected the Law in the same way James advised, because James didn't advise him to keep the Law in order to be saved. That was only your large imagination.
You add:
Joseph answers: This is not contrary to what I said but supports it: James now found himself losing the battle against Paul as he admits and tried to end it before Paul’s views could be applied to the Jews as well. He wanted them restricted to Gentiles alone. After a very intensive battle with them Paul wrote to the Galatians with more information than what was contained in Acts: At Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me : 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars , perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Paul did not choose to battle with them any longer having won this concession for the Gentiles. But the matter continued to plague him with Jews in his territories and finally the book of Hebrews corrected the problem for every disciple both Jew and Gentile. And James finally recognized this and corrected it in his letter to the Jews.
Beautiful dreams... Now, go ahead: give us any passage where it is said that James ever taught Salvation by the Law.
Take as much time as you want...
Then you say:
Joseph answers: And why do you think that James said that? Because he sent men to trouble the Gentiles over this earlier which is the reason Paul went to Jerusalem to correct it. Now losing the battle he does not want it to continue as it would effect what James was doing in Jerusalem with Jews. But in Acts 21 what does James do: He force Paul to shave his head and prove that he was keeping the Law. This was wrong and when he referenced this letter to the Gentiles, James proved to us all what his real intent was. It would take a few more years to correct it for the Jews as well. We have discussed all this many times here on JWD and many here understand all this very well. But I do not expect those following the teachings of men to understand it. If they cannot understand simple words like heaven, spirit, God, all things, then how can they understand something more complex?
James was not the only Christian who lived in Jerusalem. Look WHO troubled the Gentiles:
"Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue." ( Acts 15:1-2 )
And who are these "some men"? Answer:
"But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."" ( Acts 15:5 )
As these "some men" came from Judea, so it was the duty of James to call all the brethren not to do like those Pharisees, and not to put any burden on the Gentiles. James was not a Pharisee like you imagine. James was a true disciple.
James did not force Paul to keep the Law for Salvation. James gave Paul a very good advice that Paul applied with pleasure. We have already seen that true believers love to keep the Law. Keeping the Law is not an obligation for us, dear Joseph. You still don't know the use of the Law and of the Gospel.
So, in brief, it is YOU who are following HUMAN imaginations that have no basis in the Scripture. You look to elephants, and you imagine them flying, although you never saw them fly. Nowhere the Bible says that James taught Salvation by the Law. Nowhere the Bible says that James FORCED Paul to keep a Jewish custom. Nowhere the Bible says that James was one of the Pharisees who wanted people to be circumcised. And yet, you imagine all that as if it was true... You really have a large imagination. Believe me, it is not so complex, but, as the Lord said: "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." ( Matthew 18:3 )
You still have not given any biblical proof for your imaginations, and you accuse others of following human teachings... If you think that the Bible is human teachings, then you are in a big error.
In Christ's Love,
J.WITNESS †
