by mattbetrayed 19 Replies latest jw experiences
I was born and raised JW too. IMHO there is no god. I've read the bible cover to cover.
Now that you see that the WTBTS is false, I encourage you to explore everything your heart desires, including other faiths and religions, even atheism!
What is true for me, may not be true for another, but the only way you can decide, is to explore everything!
Welcome to JWD!!
Lady Zombie is right, look around and see how other religions treat each other, explore other things. The more we learn the more we realize we don't know.
Lady Zombie, I'm sure you've gone through a lot to get to where you are today. And I guess I agree with you in a way. I don't think anyone can come to believe in God by reading the bible. The bible only tells you about him, much like any story book tells you about the main character. This in itself does not inspire belief, I don't see how it could.
YHWH (or "Jehovah") is real. No one has seen the Father. Abraham and Moses saw "Jehovah" but it was actually Jesus in His pre-human existance.
For my two cents worth, I do not think there is a God, at least not one that is actively involved in human affairs. As I slowly shook off the shackles of the Watchtower, I was very careful not to dive into another religion. Other religions can be more believable, but equally untrue.
The more research I did, the more it pointed to no god or no active god. When I chose the God route, I had to accept just about any excuse as to why certain things happened to certain people at certain times. The God folks had an answer/excuse for just about any scenario. Example: A van with seven people in it is involved in terrible crash on Highway 152 and five were killed and two lived. The line you get is the it was " just their time" for the five and God was not ready for the other two.
Once I took God out of the picture, everything made much more sense and I did not have to come up with wacky reasons to explain confusing situations.
In my opinion, I think many cling to the notion of God because they want to hold on to the belief of an afterlife. I wish there was something after this, but logic and reason tells me the answer to the Societys book "Is this life all there is" is a resounding "Yes."
Donny
what I find is interesting, is that no matter what you believe, in God, or in no God. It still takes faith to get there. Since no matter what the answer is in the end. You can't be 100% sure, you can be 99% sure. But short of dying and coming back to let us know...well you just can't be 100% sure. It takes faith to believe in God, just like it takes faith to believe there is no God.
Not to be confused with "the faith" or "The faithful" or any of those other bible pounder labels.
Welcome to JWD!
I'm pretty agnostic. I do not need a god to worship.
YHWH (or "Jehovah") is real. No one has seen the Father. Abraham and Moses saw "Jehovah" but it was actually Jesus in His pre-human existance.
What SAC said. It took a while for this to sink in.
From The Message Bible:
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the One who has his Being alongside the Father—and you can see me.
Truly, truly.
Sylvia
Welcome, Matt.
Whether there is God, or his name is Jehovah, or had a son Jesus...well, after relying on what someone else says once, how much are you willing to trust anyone else on the subject?
The quest for God, IMHO, is an individual one and requires investigation of the world and (more importantly) your self.
It's a question you will only be able to answer by yourself, and for yourself.
Following anyone else just because they talk a good line is just listening to other people again.
Blasty says... "Yeah, the first step is to question anything anyone tells you, even the people on this board, and use those questions to find the answers that make sense to you"..
Damn good advice if you ask me...
So that said, I remembered reading where George Washington always listened to everyone, and then made decisions... he still made mistakes, but by listening to everyone HE LESSENED HIS CHANCES to make a mistake.
You'll lessen your chances if you research everything you can about God, but you'll not ever have a conclusive answer, and that's OK, some things we simply don't know. If you find something you believe then good, but still don't close your mind to other possibilities.
I've made several posts where I've stated that making dogmatic claims as to God's existence makes the poster look stupid, I don't care if they believe or disbelieve in God, but to be dogmatic over something you can't, and I mean freaking can't prove, that makes the person making that statement look like an idiot. I'm sorry but it does.
I got blasted for those comments, but I don't know why... I didn't call someone an idiot, just said that making comments like that were stupid... and they are!
It's Ok to share a theory, but to be dogmatic about such things..., that's stupid. So, to answer you're question... I'd say that the God of the OT Bible is conclusively an ass, and I want no dealings with him... I'd say the God of the NT is completely different and if they're the same God, then God changed his mind along the way. My beliefs, which can't be proven, it that neither one is real and/or exists, or has ever existed. But that is just an opinion.
YHWY is Enlil from the Sumerian creartion stories and Enki is Satan. Long story short, it was Enlil who wanted to destroy man and it was Enki who wished to save them. YHWH is NOT the god of the NT - Jesus NEVER names his father, and in fact his teachings are a complete 180 degrees away from what YHWH taught the Jews to do. Jesus says good fruit cannot come from a bad tree, and bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, yet in the OT YHWH says that he is the creator of good and evil.
In the OT Cyrus says that all the kingdoms of the world belong to YHWH and too whom he wants to he gives them. Jesus, when tempted was offered the kingdom of the world from "Satan", hmmm sounds like YHWH owned all the kingdoms, not "Satan".
Jesus said his father wanted mercy not sacrifice - a complete 180 from Judeo law. Jesus said that the religious leaders did not know his father and were not following him, for if they had they would have seen the father through Jesus.
In a nut shell YHWH is NOT god. YHWH and "Satan" are basically brothers in a pantheon of "gods" - more like aliens if you read some of the original creation stories from some of the oldest cultures...
