JW Conscientious Objectors Service or Service

by Wordly Andre 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  Wordly Andre

  My other post got me thinking, can conscientious objectors serve in some way and say out of jail? Here is a story of a man who served in WWII and recieved a Metal of Honor. I can remember hearing stories when I was a kid about how these brave brothers didn't serve in the military and ended up in jail, I always thought that if it was up to me I'd rather serve, why can't JW's serve if called upon if not as a fighter why not as a nurse or in some other way? It seems silly to stay in jail when you could help someone in need.

  CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. — The only conscientious objector to receive a Medal of Honor in World War II has been buried at a national cemetery with a 21-gun salute, although he refused to carry a weapon while serving as an Army medic.

  Desmond T. Doss Sr., 87, died March 23 in Piedmont, Ala., where he and his wife, Frances, had been living with family.

  A horse-drawn hearse delivered the flag-covered casket to the grave site Monday in the Chattanooga National Cemetery. Military helicopters flew overhead in a tribute formation.

  Doss had endured ridicule for his beliefs but "remained true to his convictions even when it was not the most popular thing to do," said Patti Parks, a retired Navy commander and director of the Medal of Honor Museum in Chattanooga.

  Doss, who refused to carry a weapon during his wartime service in the Pacific, was the subject of a book, "The Unlikeliest Hero," and a 2004 documentary, "The Conscientious Objector."

  Medal of Honor Society records show he was among 3,442 recipients of the nation's highest military honor.
  While under enemy fire on the island of Okinawa, Doss carried 75 wounded soldiers to the edge of a 400-foot cliff and lowered them to safety, according to his citation.

  During a later attack, he was seriously wounded in the legs by a grenade. According to the citation, as he was being carried to safety, he saw a more critically injured man and crawled off his stretcher, directing the medics to help the other wounded man.

  "He wanted to serve. He just didn't want to kill anybody," said a veteran who attended the service, Fred Headrick, 85. "Most all of them (Medal of Honor recipients) received their medal for killing someone. He received his by saving lives."
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  james_woods

  Speaking of the JW VietNam era - the stated reason was that if you were a C.O., you were not "neutral" enough from the world. You would be considered to have dissasociated yourself from the org if you voluntarily did this.

  However, if you stood trial for draft evasion and then were sentenced to do C.O. duties (usually at a V.A. hospital) that was OK by the WTS.

  Two points: The WTS strictly forbid members to even say that this was what they were ordering. You were absolutely always to say that it was all your own independent idea. I believe that this was obviously to insulate the society itself from prosecution.

  Also, I have always believed that the society positively reveled in the "persecutions" they got out of the U.S. draft. I think that it served their purpose very well to have the guys my age do hard Federal prison time rather than just be a voluntary C.O. - it highlighted their holy status, and also encouraged a lot of people to pioneer in the hope of getting a ministerial deferment.

  Notice that now that the draft is gone, they changed the policy - C.O. would have been OK, but you should be glad that you showed your faith and went to prison in the day.

  No skin off their noses, huh? They were all 80 year old puppetmasters while us 18-24 year olds were taking all the heat.
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  Wordly Andre

  I remember when I was a kid everyone would try to push me to get baptized because I might be sent off to war and if I wasn't dunked there was nothing that the elders could do to save me. UGG they make me sick
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  james_woods

  Andre, I trust I am not disillusioning you - but the elders (they were called servants when I went through this, though) would have been the last persons in the world to try to keep you out of jail over selective service. Trust me on this - I barely avoided five years federal time myself.

  And it was because I turned to a qualified non-witness civil rights attorney who was able to delay my case until finally I got a very favorable number in the Nixon draft lottery which made it a moot point.

  Two of my friends did do the full five year sentence after spending more money than I did on disgusting old JW lawyer Hayden Covington to defend them. He grandstanded in court (drunk as usual) and got them the max. He also ran off to defend Muhammed Ali during their appeals process.
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  Wordly Andre

  HOW CAN THIS BE? aren't they doing Jehovahs work in Jehovahs Organization? Must be the draft demons at work here!
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  Undecided

  I remember those days well. I also contacted Hayen Covington for advice on my draft. I had the FBI investigate me where I worked and down the road where I lived. I got a letter to be inducted and one day before I had to show up I got my 4D classification as a minister. One of my friends had to serve time in prison. My wife got a job so she could support herself when I got my induction notice, if I was sent to prison. I had wrote all kinds of letters to the draft board and also met with them several times. It may have saved my life.

  Ken P.
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  garybuss

  Watch Tower Witnesses are not pacifists according to the Society. They would fight for the Watch Tower government. The reason the Witnesses won't work in pacifist jobs in the military is because their refusal is a political protest.
  
  Same with refusing to salute flags. That's a political protest too.
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses are a political resistance movement by nature. They're a political party waiting to rule the world. They have been ever since the Rutherford bunch stole the corporation from the Bible Students. Calling their party a religion is how the party stays in business. Using the Bible is how the party gets people to work for them and raise cash for the cause.
  
  Rutherford's purpose was to punish the churches for laughing at him, for not appreciating his sound cars blasting them, and to punish the governments for not respecting him and his party called "The Theocracy". In this century with the current owners, raising cash has pretty much become the cause. Now the party is called "The Society" by the workers, and "The Organization" by the insiders. Religion has been reduced to a perihelial element.
  
  
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  james_woods

  Question Garybuss - and it goes to my thread yesterday about "Russell or Rutherford - who was the first to preach Anti-Government, Anti-War rhetoric" - and which got absolutely no posts so far.

  Do I take it that you believe that it was totally Rutherford that made up this rhetoric? (not Russell)

  I could certainly believe it because of his general hate for almost everybody on earth (maybe represed patricidal rage), but was he actually smart enough to think this up?

  In other words, could not have Russell have made some milder comments on the futility of human government and war, and sort of lit Rutherford's short fuse?
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  garybuss

  Hi james_woods,
  
  Just based on my personal reading, Russell presented his views in a spirit of cooperation and Rutherford presented his views in a spirit of confrontation.
  
  When Rutherford purged the Bible Students from Bethel the scum floated to the top. The kinder and milder Bible Students went away. Some like Paul Johnson were vocal and indignant and they left a pretty well documented history of events.
  
  Rutherford attracted defectives like Fisher and Woodworth. Rutherford was so politically active that he got the Watch Tower Company shut down and all the directors thrown in prison for political crimes in second year of control of the company.
  
  Paul Johnson didn't get thrown in prison. I'm not aware of any Bible Students thrown in prison for political crimes. There might have been some, I'd like to know if there were.
  
  I'm not a historian by any means. I just read where my interests lead me, although I've read quite a bit of the William Miller, Second Advent, and Watch Tower history.
  
  I'm still today kind of a fan of the Bible Students based on my personal experience, and I very much don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses today, based on my personal experience as well, so my outlook is certainly biased.
  
  On your topic of anti-government, the Witness writings condemn the Russell Bible Students during WWII for cooperating (compromising) with the War efforts. The Russell Bible Students were religious in my opinion and they were social. Rutherford's mix was political, and anti-social. Only the Watch Tower name stayed the same. Everything else basic changed.
  
  
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  Wordly Andre

  what would be wrong with helping out in a military hospital instead of going to jail?