MythBusting..."Six lines of evidence of the end"... [email protected]'s comments

by Awakened at Gilead 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    I remember studying this article in the year 2000, and I think that this was the 1st time that I found something hard to swallow in the WTS teachings... It just seemed like circular reasoning to me. Did anyone have the same feeling when they studied this article? Let's see if we can debunk these myths...






    First, we clearly see the fulfillment of the apostle Paul’s prophecy concerning "thelastdays." Paul wrote: "In the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled." (2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13) Do we not see this prophecy being fulfilled in our day? Only those who ignore the facts can deny it!


    Second, we see the effects of the ouster of Satan and his demons from heaven, in fulfillment of Revelation12:9. There, we read: "Down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." This has resulted in great woe for the earth. Truly, there has been much woe for mankind, particularly since 1914. But the prophecy in Revelation adds that when the Devil is cast down to the earth, he knows that "he has a short period of time." (Revelation 12:12) During this period, Satan wages war with the anointed followers of Christ. (Revelation 12:17) We certainly have seen the effects of his attack in our time. Soon, however, Satan will be confined in the abyss so that "he might not mislead the nations anymore."—Revelation 20:1-3.


    Third, we are living in the time of the eighth and final "king" mentioned in the prophecy recorded at Revelation17:9-11. Here the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees "an eighth king" that "springs from the seven." This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king "goes off into destruction," after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.


    Fourth, we are living in the period symbolized by the feet of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream image. The prophet Daniel interpreted this mysterious dream of an enormous image in human form. (Daniel 2:36-43) The four metallic parts of the image represent various world powers, beginning with the head (the Babylonian Empire) and extending down to the feet and toes (the governments that are ruling today). All the world powers represented in that image have made their appearance. We are living in the period symbolized by the feet of the image. No mention is made of other powers to come.


    Fifth, we see a global preaching work being accomplished, which Jesus said would take place just before the end of this system. Jesus stated: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.


    Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller. Yet, referring to the great tribulation, Jesus stated: "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:21, 22) Evidently, then, some of Christ’s "chosen ones" will still be on earth when the great tribulation begins.

    Lance's comments on the above, why this is circular reasoning:

    1: 2 Tim3:1-5 is taken out of context by the WTS... people have always been like this. If you look at the contect this is not part of an "end-times" prophecy. Even in Gilead this was explained, that these verses had their application in the 1st century, and are not unique to our day. MYTH DEBUNKED

    2. We don't see the ouster of Satan from heaven nor its effects... just as we don't see any flying spaghetti monster either... MYTH DEBUNKED

    3. The 8th king = the UN.... interesting that when this article was written the WTS was a member of the UN.... and this is just their interpretation of Revelation that supports their worldview... MYTH DEBUNKED

    4. The feet of the image... there are a number of differing possible interpretations of this image. Many feel that Daniel was written in the time of the Maccabeans, and would therefore have its fulfillment in that time period... so the WTS opinion does not prove anything... MYTH DEBUNKED

    5. Global preaching work.. this is a classic case of circular reasoning... "look we are fulfilling prophecies because the propheciy is talking about what we do..." Huhhhh? IMO, MYTH DEBUNKED

    6. Anointed dwindling??????? Not since I last checked... now they are increasing... there are more anointed ones now than there were in the 80's (over 9000 now). So I guess the end isn't so close after all.... MYTH DEBUNKED.


    So I guess that we are not living in the time of the end after all... the WTS likes to use circular reasoning that sounds like it makes sense... but it really doesn't. I hope some lurkers will read this!!!!!!


  • AllTimeJeff

    My response to this article now is "....its always something with these guys." The GB will always take something from the bible and claim it as their own and that it applies to them. Most religons do this with the bible. JW's aren't unique.

    If you are looking for the rapture and join a church, there are scriptures those churches will use to support their claim.

    If you believe that Jesus will forgive everyone because of his ransom sacrifice, their are scriptures other churches will use to support this claim.

    If you believe that Jesus will destroy non believers, their are scriptures these churches will use to support their claim.

    If you believe that Jehovah is the true god and was worshipped in the first century, and that his name was in wide use back then, then you have a NWT of the bible and are likely a JW.

  • Hope4Others

    You know, I think one thing that has always troubled/bugged me is the taking of prophecies fulfilled from long ago and applying

    them to future events. How ever we can make it fit to our teachings idea, lets go for it. Misapplication of scriptures is #1 on my list

    for pet peeves....

    Interesting the sense things make when its all on one page.


    [email protected]Question Mark 3..............That`s hilarious!!..BravoBravoBravo..............................Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW

  • treadnh2o

    [email protected] The sixth point is one that always irritated me. The number identified at Rev.7:4 is clearly 144,000 in any translation a person wishes to reference. This is a point that JW's take literally and falsely claim the number is decreasing. Your myth debunking is accurate especially as it appears that a whole new wave has partaken this year (I even wonder if they will release an accurate number or fudge it) . I believe the myth debunking should regress back to the scripture in Revelation which identifies these anointed ones being out the 12 tribes of Israel. Why is the number literal and the identification of those chosen figurative? I have never heard a logical explanation for this. What I have concluded is that my own opinion ( which is irrelevant) holds as much weight as the JW opinion. Factor this with your other myths and it is easy to see why a JW who truly tests what he has learned will eventually need to get out the false religion known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • treadnh2o

    I guess you got me going on this one- Point 3- How long will it be before"New Light" is identified and the 8th King is identified as someone else? I also cannot wait until the King of the North and King of the South has a "new" identity. Do you think these identifications will change in the near future?

  • crazycate

    Lance: Would you please give more details regarding #1? I've never seen anything in print from the organization that indicates anything other than that this scripture applies in our day. What did they say at Gilead?

    Thanks, Cate

  • str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up
    str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up

    [email protected] SO TRUE!

    I have had this discussion with another ex witness friend of mine, circular reasoning. The borg's favourite teaching tool. What is amazing about circular reasoning is that it attempts to justify itself over and over. Its what we used to call in debating circles (yes I was a nerd at school, and a member of the debating team) as the 'even if' argument. Ie "even if" that were to be true, insert statement here. The idea being you can debate any point by using circular logic. It was an effective tool. No wonder I was invited to be a member of the state debating team in high school - The Borg had taught me well.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead


    Actually I may have misquoted myself.... but the info at Gilead was somewhat ambigious, stating that the final effects of apostasy would be what is considered the last days...

    *** it-2 pp. 206-207 Last Days ***

    Last Days Associated With the Apostasy. The words "last days" or comparable expressions are sometimes used in connection with the apostasy that was to be experienced within the Christian congregation. Wrote the apostle Paul to Timothy: "The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons." (1Ti 4:1; compare Ac 20:29, 30.) In a later letter to Timothy, Paul again discussed this point and spoke of future "last days." Because of the abandonment of right conduct by people then, these were to be "critical times hard to deal with" or, more literally, ‘fierce appointed times.’ (Int) After describing in detail the wayward course and perverted attitudes to prevail among persons living at that time, Paul continued: "From these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (2Ti 3:1-7) Next Paul contrasted such corrupt persons with Timothy, who had closely followed the apostle’s teaching, and encouraged him to ‘continue in the things that he had learned and been persuaded to believe.’ (2Ti 3:8-17; see also 2Ti 4:3-5.) Thus from the context it is clear that the apostle was informing Timothy well in advance about future developments among professed Christians and describing what fruitage such apostasy would finally yield.


    ?Didthe"lastdays"thatPauldescribesat2 Timothy3:1-7haveaninitialfulfillmentontheJewishsystemofthingsinthefirstcentury?The "last days" mentioned by Paul at 2 Timothy 3:1-7 refer to the time after the apostasy had had its long day under the "man of lawlessness" referred to at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12. All the matters mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 are ‘fruits’ of apostasy that are grossly apparent in our time. This does not refer to the first century, as the "man of lawlessness" was not then evident. These "last days" are therefore different from the "last hour" mentioned at 1 John 2:18, which refers to the closing period of apostolic restraint against lawlessness. This "restraint" was taken away at the death of John, the last of the apostles.—2 Thess. 2:7.

    Its still a bunch of circular reasoning...

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty
    a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled."

    Dam, that sounds like JWS maybe Apostle Paul was right

    Every ting that is written in these scriptures were exactly what it was like back at the time when it was written.

    If the GB members were at least educated in human history they would know this

    Take some uneducated or poorly educated men and put a bible in their hands and watch out........ignorance always hurts

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