The USA is not a Republic Any Longer

by sammielee24 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  sammielee24

  This according to an interview with Gore Vidal. I thought this bit of his interview was a pretty decent assessment. sammieswife.

  'The US is not a republic anymore' Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:42:15 An interview with Gore Vidal by Afshin Rattansi, Press TV, Tehran

  Gore Vidal Press TV:We hear that Michael Mukasey is going to become the latest of the President's Attorney-Generals to be subpoenaed, this time over his conversations with Bush and Cheney - does this show that Congress is serious about calling the executive to account? Gore Vidal: No, Congress has never been more cowardly, nor more corrupt. All Bush has do is to make sure certain amounts of money go in the direction of certain important congressmen and that's end of any serious investigation. After all, one of the bravest members of Congress is Denis Kucinich who brought the article of impeachment in to the well of the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives must then try the president, and then after that it goes to the Senate for judgment. However, none of these things will happen because there's nobody there except for Mr. Kucinich who has the courage to take on a sitting president who is kind of a Mafioso. Press TV: How can it just be one person among so many hundreds of Congressmen who wants the impeachment of George W. Bush in these circumstances? Gore Vidal: Well it's because we no longer have a country. We don't have a republic any more. During the last 7 or 8 years of the Bush regime, they've got rid of the Bill of Rights, they've got rid of habeas corpus. They have got rid of one of the nicest gifts that England ever left us when they went away and we ceased to be colonies - the Magna Carta - from the 12th century. All of our law and due process of law is based on that. And the Bush people got rid of it. The president and little Mr. Gonzales who for a few minutes was his Attorney General. They managed to get rid of all of the constitutional links that made us literally a republic. Press TV: You have often written about the US's superpower status in terms of the history of previous superpowers. Do you think we're witnessing the end of US power as some suggest. Will the White House be seen like Persepolis? Gore Vidal: Well it won't make such good ruins, no. It'll be more like the tomb of Cyrus nearby. They managed to destroy the United States - why? Because they're oil and gas people and they're essentially criminals. I repeat that this is a criminal group that's seized control of the country through what looked like an ordinary election. But there's some very nice films and documentaries about what happened in the year 2000 when Albert Gore won the election for president and they saw to it that he couldn't serve. They got the Supreme Court - which is the Holy of Holies ordinarily in our system - to investigate and then accuse the thieves of being absolutely correct and the winners - Mr. Gore and the Democrats - of being the cheaters. It's the first law of Machiavelli, whatever your opponent's faults are, you pick his virtues and you deny he has them. That's what they did when Senator Kerry ran a few years ago for president. He's a famous hero from the Vietnam War. They said he was a coward and not a hero. That's how it's done. When you have a bunch of liars in charge of your government you can't expect to get much history out of that. But later on we'll dig and dig… and we will dig up Persepolis. Press TV: Senator Obama talks about change but of course he has courting Wall Street as well as the Israeli lobby - do you see any prospect of change with him as president? Gore Vidal: Not really. I don't doubt his good faith, just as I do not doubt the bad faith of Cheney and Bush. They are such dreadful people that we've never had in government before. They would never have risen unless they were buying elections as they did in Florida in 2000, as they did in the State of Ohio in 2004. These are two open thefts of the Presidency. When I discovered that this did not interest the New York Times or the Washington Post or any of the press of the country I realized our day was done. We are no longer a country we are a framework for crooks to go in and steal money. Knowing that they'll never be caught and they'll be admired for it. Americans always take everybody on his own evaluation. You say I'm a state and they say "oh, yeah yeah yeah, he's a state, isn't that great." And you accuse the other people of your crimes before you commit them. It's an old trick which was known to Machiavelli who wrote about it in his handbook, the Prince. Press TV:Finally that issue which is exercising so many minds in the Middle East and beyond. You, yourself have written about so many Imperial wars of the United States. Do you think Bush and Cheney would risk another war in what Mohammad ElBaradei of the IAEA calls a fireball? Gore Vidal: They are longing to but they have spent all of the money. They have got it in their own private companies like the Vice-President and a company called Halliburton which is stealing more money and should be on trial sooner or later before Congress. But perhaps not, who knows? But it's well known in Washington, these people are leaking away the money of the country. Well there's no more money. They are longing for a war with Iran. Iran is no more a harm to us than was Iraq or Afghanistan. They invented an enemy, they tell lies, lies, lies. The New York Times goes along with their lies, lies, lies. And they don't stop. When the public that's lied to 30 times a day it's apt to believe the lies, is not it? Gore Vidal is a renowned American writer and erstwhile political candidate.
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  DubNoMo

  Getting political advice from Gore Vidal is like getting medical advice from Jack Kevorkian.
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  Dorktacular

  Sorry, but until the Constitution is abandoned and we ratify a new constitution and adopt some other form of government, we are still a representative republic. No, kids, we are not a democracy, no matter how many ill-informed civics and history teachers told you that. We are, and always were a republic.
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  james_woods

  I am going to have to save this in case the subject of Republican and Neocon blogs comes up again.

  Isn't this the same thing on the Liberal side?

  And, what does it have to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses, ex JWs, or people escaping the JWs?
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  Fadeout

  So would that be neolib propaganda?

  Or does it not rise to that level until we're talking about reptilians in human clothing?
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  kurtbethel

  It has not been a republic for quite a while.
  
  At all levels value is taken from you and you do not get value in return.
  
  It is a kleptocracy.
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  Fadeout

  Press TV: Senator Obama talks about change but of course he has courting Wall Street as well as the Israeli lobby - do you see any prospect of change with him as president?
  
  Gore Vidal: Not really. I don't doubt his good faith, just as I do not doubt the bad faith of Cheney and Bush.

  It seems odd that Vidal ascribes vast evil powers to Bush/Cheney, but no power to Obama as president... while at the same not not questioning Obama's good faith, and quickly changing the subject back to the evilness of Bush/Cheney.

  If the presidency goes to whomever is strong and wily enough to steal it, and Obama wins the presidency, there is an obvious logical disconnect for those who believe that Obama is different, more noble, etc. than his predecessors.
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  IP_SEC

  It has not been a republic for quite a while.

  This is absolutely correct. Since just after the civil war. The 13th and 14th amendments for all intents and purposes abolished the federation of states. The federation still exists, only YOU dont belong to it. Anyone interested in knowing more?
• 

  BurnTheShips

  This is absolutely correct. Since just after the civil war. The 13th and 14th amendments for all intents and purposes abolished the federation of states. The federation still exists, only YOU dont belong to it. Anyone interested in knowing more?

  First of all, "Federation" and "Republic" are two different meaning words. Even without a federal character, some form of republic is possible.

  The individual states do not have the authority to violate the rights enumerated in the Constitution the 13th clearly spells this out:

  Text of the 13th:

  Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

  Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

  The 14th is a different story as it essentially destroys large part of the federal nature of the Republic by removing the right of secession:

  Text of the 14th:

  Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

  Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

  Section 3. No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

  Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

  Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

  BTS
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  IP_SEC

  Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude

  The 13th ammendment works hand in hand with the 14th. It sets up the 14th.

  The 13th amendment allows voluntary servitude since it is not explicitly excluded. We are all voluntary 14th amendment citizens.