A grave contradiction?

by dark angle 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV):"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

    Numbers 14:18 (KJV): "The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation]."

    No contradiction there (of course! It's the Bible!).

    - God simply both punishes the next generation for their fathers' sins - - - and doesn't.

    He's God, after all, and can do everything.

    And, at the same time, not do everything. He can have his pie and eat it too.

    Or not eat it, while eating it.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    "Dark angel".... hmmmm

    I don't think you really understand the BIG PICTURE.

    Once Adam sinned without having had children then he and all his children were condemned to death. Period. God could have killed Adam right then and there and none of us would have been born. He could have just created a new couple, killed Satan and started over.

    But, he could see US. YOU, specifically. The potentiality of you. The specific children of Adam. They would have been lost. Satan would have gotten away with the mass murder of billions.

    So the choice was to let by-gones be by-gones and start over, too bad for Adam's children, OR to bend the rules. There are two caveats:

    1) The sentence of DEATH for sin was not specifically defined. That is, was it death forever, or for just three days. The sentence is carried out after death. But no one said God couldn't raise up back to life anyone who had died. That caveat #1.

    2) Caveat #2 is that in order to include Adam's children on this temporarly death sentence amnesty, you had to be able to have some sort of a ransom sacrifice. So God made up a rule that if someone voluntarily gave up their perfect human life, dying without children, then God would accept that sacrifice of all those potential perfect lives in exchange for Adam's children.

    What many don't understand, is if the RULE to have the sins of the father come upon the sons was not in place, then the sinless father could not save them. Because of that rule, since one man sinned and brought death to all his children, one perfect man without children could undo this.

    But really, SIN and the LAW and mankind, the physical universe was created to get rid of Satan. You see, up in heaven it's just TALK, basically. You can't kill anybody. You don't need to steal anything. So it's just talk. But talk is annoying. So basically, Jehovah created a situation for Satan to put his mouth was. He knew Satan was an elitist so he created mankind and made him in God's image and created a scenario that if taken advantage of, could allow Satan the thrill of a lifetime, a thrill worth dying for, which was killing billions of people! Which he did. Only God turned the tables on him. Those who would die could be brought back to life if God chose. So in this way, God gets rid of Satan and the rebel angels. Basically all the good angels decided to die for God's cause for a short time and be brought back. Satan would have to comply with the same general policy only he won't be brought back.

    So you see, DEATH doesn't really amount to much at all, unless its PERMANENT. DEATH satisfies the letter of the law but its flexible as far as eternal life is concerned because God can bring back whom he wants AFTER death.

    So it's all kind of a process, painful, maybe confusing for some, but in the end, the only people who end up dying are those who would have rebelled with Satan anyway and God would have executed them. All the good people will have the chance to life forever.

    So this whole process of pain and sickness and death is to get our "ticket" to life later on. We need to be born and then die in order to be part of the later life planned for us.

    I believe the ratios will be similar for humanity as for the angels in heaven. Two-thirds will serve and love God and a third will opt out. Collateral damage. But Satan and his demons will be GONE! Forever. Everyone alive will have died, being tested to the death for their integrity, so there will be no more rebellion.

    The earth will still be a crown of God's creation with maybe 4 billion people left on the planet and forever to get to know each other. If everybody was made room mates with every othe human for one year, every other year, just so everybody would one day say they know everybody else, it would take 8 billion years. Just a thought.

    MAN was created to get rid of Satan, because with MAN and the physical universe, you could have LAWS and SIN, and thus DEATH.

    SATAN gladly died for the chance to kill mankind. But if he knew he'd only be killing permanently the wicked and all the good would be saved, would he have bothered? Doubtful.

    But God's like that. He plays games. He turns the tables. He likes to wager and gamble. So he said man would die but he didn't say how long they would have to die.

    It's INGENIUS! Just make a rule that EVERYBODY MUST DIE and kill everybody! Even your own only-begotten son. Just like during the Flood. Then after that, you bring back who you want and the incident is forgotten. Satan can't say anything. And Christ and the faithful angels gladly would die for the cause of getting rid of Satan, so it all worked out. Satan has to live with being outsmarted and tricked. ALL he has left is to kill as many as possible. He is focussed. That's his only legacy. He loves killing mankind so he may as well go for it. In the meantime, it works out for God because Satan exposes the evil in the hearts of mankind who deserve to die if they rebel, so Satan is now part of the clean-up crew. Jehovah is using him.

    JC

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    I'm too wordy!

    Bottom line is, we have a second chance to live, thanks to Jehovah's plan to save us.

    Are we going to kiss a gift horse in the mouth? Question his methods?

    What if he bent the law to save us? Would we care? No!

    We don't care if the rules are bent if it saves someone we love. We just don't.

    So it boils down to: Do you want to stand here and argue. Or do you want to live longer than 80 years?

    JC

  • loosie
    loosie

    He who created the game can make up the rules as he goes along.

    If he isn't winning he can change the rules.

    I totally agree with your point.

  • MsMcDucket
    MsMcDucket

    According to the Jehovah's Witnesses that only applies to the 144,000 or whatever! The ones lower than them shall get an earthly resurrection that is if you accept the Watchtower teachings over Jesus. It's such bull !

  • MsMcDucket
    MsMcDucket

    Do the anointed get a pass on the 1000 year reign? Are only the earthly resurrected to be retested? If so, why?

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01

    I have always thought that God's statement to Adam (eat from this tree and you'll die) wasn't a threat or even a promise but rather a statement of fact. It seems to me that Adam was made so that once he fell short of the mark (sin) then that would produce very real physical symptoms that could not be covered up or ignored.

    After all getting old and dying is a physical process

    Yes, there is a contradiction with Deuteronomy 24:16 because we are being punished for the sin of our common father, Adam.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    heathen:

    jesus made himself a sacrifice equal to the perfect human

    By WT catechism only. I can't think of any Bible text stating, implying or even suggesting that "equation".

    Awakened and Jringe: Deuteronomy 24:16 rather clearly refers to human justice. In the same book (Deuteronomistic version of the Decalogue, 5:9f) it is equally clear that Yhwh's "justice" follows different rules. This changes later, at least in some circles (Ezekiel 18, about divinepunishment for "sin").

  • oompa
    oompa

    This has always pissethed me off too..........oompa

  • dark angle
    dark angle

    @JCanon,

    Thanks for spending some time in your very inovative and imaginary idea. however the god you painted is same or worser than the JW teachings. he looks like a psycho.

    But God's like that. He plays games. He turns the tables. He likes to wager and gamble. So he said man would die but he didn't say how long they would have to die.
    It's INGENIUS! Just make a rule that EVERYBODY MUST DIE and kill everybody! Even your own only-begotten son.

    by your discription, hes a gambler and doesn't have any regard for human life. plays with your life as if a bunch of cards and so much detached with feeling and symphathy of your pain. he considers the entire universe as a slot machine to played, manipulated, to be destroyed and be rebuild over and over again.

    Basically all the good angels decided to die for God's cause for a short time and be brought back.

    i haven't heard of that idea of angel resurection since. how did you know? or did you invented it?

    MAN was created to get rid of Satan, because with MAN and the physical universe, you could have LAWS and SIN, and thus DEATH.

    poor us. were just pawns and have very silly meaning to life. sory bro. however i find your ideas very good in making an epic story in the lines of goerge lucas.

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