Can someone please give me the link to the discussion that we had
that proves that the WTBTS teaches that only the 144,000 have
Jesus as their Mediator. I told this to one of my Witness friends
and he told me that is not true.
Thanks,
TooBad TooSad
by TooBad TooSad 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
Can someone please give me the link to the discussion that we had
that proves that the WTBTS teaches that only the 144,000 have
Jesus as their Mediator. I told this to one of my Witness friends
and he told me that is not true.
Thanks,
TooBad TooSad
I beleive it was in a 1979 WT mag, and how our prayers are to go through the FS.
I pretty sure this teaching has changed and we are not to pray to the FS.
Heres a link to it. http://www.jwfiles.com/mediator.htm
I must say my brain is rusty on some of the doctrines. Jesus does mediate on the rank and files behalf too doesn't he? That is way they still have to pray through Jesus Christ. . . or is it that he takes pity on those associated to the little flock so as an act of good will he mediates for us....
I don't know all of the documentation, but the doctrine is basically this:
The New Covenant that Jesus set up and died for was ONLY with the 144,000 annointed. Mankind can only be saved, resurrected, make it into the New System by being ALIGNED, or associated with, the 144,000 annointed, who are bridesmaids with Christ. Only by being aligned with the WTBS, the F&DS, etc do you have any hope of everlasting life on paradise earth. Therefore, Jesus IS NOT the mediator for mankind, but only the 144,000. This is also why it was stated in several articles, and also repeated on here, that the Bible was written for only the 144,000 annointed, and only they can interpret scripture. Hence, the only good spiritual food being delivered today comes from the Faithful and Discreet Slave. All other food being distributed is from Babylon the Great, Satan's evil slave class.
This makes sense in WT land when you think about it. The baptismal vows changed in 1984-1985 to reflect this, and also only the 144,000 are allowed to partake in the communion of Christ. You are batpized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit-Directed Organization. Does the Bible support this? Hell no. No where does Jesus state that he only came for a certain heavenly class, John Class, etc. No where does he talk of two seperate hopes.
I'm sure Blondie can pop in here and back up what I've just said with full WT material quotes, dates, etc. I'm pretty sure I got it right though.
- Wing Commander
I believe this is based on an old doctrine from the original Society when it was taught that "The Christ" was a combination of Jesus AND the "Little Flock." The thought was that all mankind outside the "Little Flock" would be blessed in the future by "The Christ". "The Christ" was always described as "head and body" - but the "body" was basically limited to those who were of the "Elect" (144,000).
Unless something has actually changed in WT doctrine since the late 1970's, according to the WTS, the "Great Crowd" is in need of mediation THROUGH the "Little Flock."
It's not old doctrine. It's still taught.
So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.
I always heard the caveat "by extension" when the NT and Mediatorship of Christ was discussed. It applied to us "by extension". Meaning we were denied direct benefit of Jesus' .saving sacrifice. Of course this effectively replaced Jesus as Christ (or Savior) and made the WT leadership our Savior.... directly and not by extension.
Sigh...well, hind sight is 20/20. It would have been much easier to spot the wolf if they would have just come out and plainly said, "Hey, we're the Christ...follow us". They were too careful in word choices to do that.... but that's exactly what they said.
This was in fact one of the key debating points of the "great apostacy" of Bethel circa 1975 to 1981. The Watchtower itself during this era published study articles which were alternatively "hard line" or "soft line" on the issue back then.
Eventually, of course, the hard line won out. But, it is such a radioactive subject with many witnesses that the WTS are forced to sugarcoat it in language such as was quoted above in this thread - "in a strict Biblical sense"...what other sense could there be? Are you hinting around that JC is "kind of your mediator in a manner of speaking, but not really"?
The issue was, I believe, raised by the visionary reformers ( Ray, Ed, the others ) as a substitute for the much more divisive idea "144,000 is not literal". It does brilliantly lead to that conclusion, however. While many normal JW brainwash victims would argue until hell froze over that only 144,000 go to heaven, a lot of them (including loyalist elders I knew at the time) really got rattled at the idea that Jesus was technically not their mediator, and that they were not in the new covenant.
This kind of issue really opens the floodgates on how much ridiculous speculative doctrine that the WTS has built over those two obscure 144,000 Revalation references over the years. Neither of the verses even remotely hints at what they have dreamed up about their sacred 144,000. It is now quite amusing to see that once again, they have painted themselves into a numerical corner over the fact that the remaining "144,000 remnant" are not dying out - in fact, their numbers seem to be at least holding steady if not increasing. Thus, subtle changes are now being made in the "time of sealing" of the remnant (not 1930s any more), generation, etc.
a lot of them (including loyalist elders I knew at the time) really got rattled at the idea that Jesus was technically not their mediator, and that they were not in the new covenant.
After several years of shunning my mom and dad finally agreed see my wife and kids. Of course it turned into a lecture fest. My father can be very confrontational. Your statement above is what I fired at him a couple of times. He was shocked and flat out denied it in front of everyone. He claimed that Jesus was his mediator and savior. I told him that was not WT doctrine and that if he went around repeating it....he'd be disfellowshipped.
My mother chuckled, but quickly regained her composure after a glare from dad.
"Cake anyone?"