I'm not a MS anymore, I think I'm gonna skip this arsembly.
I think my wife lately is getting agreeable on skipping stuff once in a while.... and my kid always says "kingdom hall again!, oh no!"
DC Observations: Day One (Friday)
by Open mind 16 Replies latest members private
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Doubting Bro
The whole first day was spent completely confusing the r&f about what the WTS teaching on the Holy Spirit is all about. I always understood that it was "Gods active force" but really never understood what the WTS really meant by that, other than its not a person therefore no trinity.
Now, I am completely confused as to what it really is. One part said that its not "power" because that's a different Greek word. Yet, in the same breath, the speaker compared the HS to curent in a battery. Ok, that's fine, but isn't the current in a battery ITS POWER??? WTF?? They read off a bunch of scriptures that literally half you could take as HS being "active force" , power, whatever and half being a person. So which is it? Honestly, it sure does sound like a person based on a neutral reading of the scriptures presented. I honestly had no idea the WTS teaching on this was so confusing.
Of course, what would a DC be these days without taking SEVERAL shots at "higher education"? The symposium at the end of Friday had six parts and 2 of them slammed college specifically. In the first part about "Work", they trotted out an attractive, well spoken and obviously smart 18 y/o who proudly told the audience that she rejected a scholarship and will start pioneering in the fall. Now, she made it sound like a full ride but knowing how those experiences are "enhanced" it was probably a very small one. Still, it broke my heart to hear how she's not concerned about her future.
On the other hand, I did find out that one of the kids used on one of the demos is actually going to a big name university in the fall!! My guess is the powers to be didn't know about that, but many of the kids did!
The wife & I played the "who can spot the most outrageous outfit" game which was fun. Pretty much a waste of a day.
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BreakingAway
Good one Blondie ! That's the real reason why the "princes" didn't show up in 1925.They're partying like it's 1999.
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Open mind
Doubting Bro:
Now, I am completely confused as to what it really is.
Person.........Holy Spirit...........Energy
Holy Spirit is right there in the middle.
Watchtower said so.
Good synopsis Doubting Bro.
I agree that most of the "higher education" bashing was done in the form of interviews with people who either have thrown away, or are about to throw away, their financial futures. That way any exceptionally harsh statements can't be pinned on the GB.
om
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sir82
proudly told the audience that she rejected a scholarship
Here's what I don't get.
Colleges don't go around throwing money at people. If you want a scholarship, you have to apply for it.
If you know ahead of time that you plan on pioneering and washing windows from ages 18 thru 80, why apply in the first place?
Are there really JW kids so cynical / deranged that they purposely apply for scholarships so that they can "proudly" reject them and thus have a part on the assembly?
Or do you think that maybe the CO / DO "edited" her experience a liitle bit? Nah, that couldn't be it....
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Doubting Bro
Person.........Holy Spirit...........Energy
Holy Spirit is right there in the middle.
Watchtower said so.
Ah, much better now!! Probably no wonder that I've moved into the agnostic category!
Colleges don't go around throwing money at people. If you want a scholarship, you have to apply for it .
Great point.
Or do you think that maybe the CO / DO "edited" her experience a liitle bit? Nah, that couldn't be it ....
That would be disingenuous, no way would they do that!
I think maybe what happened was the kid won an award that contained some scholarship money that she was maybe nominated for by a teacher or something. They implied that it was a big scholarship but I don't think they gave the full story.
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Prov1320
Doubting bro,
Here's proof of what the HS is, and some mathematical proof that the HS is an entity or person.
Now, I am completely confused as to what it really is. One part said that its not "power" because that's a different Greek word. Yet, in the same breath, the speaker compared the HS to curent in a battery. Ok, that's fine, but isn't the current in a battery ITS POWER??? WTF?? They read off a bunch of scriptures that literally half you could take as HS being "active force" , power, whatever and half being a person. So which is it? Honestly, it sure does sound like a person based on a neutral reading of the scriptures presented. I honestly had no idea the WTS teaching on this was so confusing.
This can be confusing. By definition it cannot be power, so that much is true. And current or voltage is not a force, so they too cannot be the HS. The following formulas can help understand what the holy spirit really is and how it operates.
P (power) = I (current) x V (voltage) (power formula)
and V = I X R (resistance)
putting the two together we get: P = V^2 / R ... Power is dependent on both the supplied current and the load resistance... so the lower the resistance, the greater the power! The HS is neither the current or voltage, because they only produce power if there is a "load" (resistance). The load will exert a force once the power exerts it's influence. So according to the formula and in a real word application, the greater the influence (current), and the weaker resistance you have, the greater power is exerted over you. But always keep in mind that the force is only "generated" in the load. It does not travel to the load. The WTS uses the power plant or battery analogy to say that the HS "travels" to the destination. These formulas prove otherwise.
So how can we understand God's HS? God is said to be the source of this power. The holy spirit is said to be the "active force". What does this equate to?
To equate power to force, the energy needs to be converted:
P (power) = E (energy) / t (time) .... so power is the energy generated over time.
F (force) = E / d (distance) ... so force is how much energy is dissipated over distance.
so putting the equations together we find the formula for the Holy Spirit:
F = P x d x t ...
Conclusion: The "active force" or holy spirit is equal to the power of God magnified over time and space.
Remember, there must be a "load" for a force to act upon. Force doesn't just "travel". Only energy travels/moves which contains power generated or used over time. It seems unlikely that one can "have" or "use" the force (sorry Star Wars fans!), but the force can "move" or "control" one to do God's will. If we strictly adhere to this analysis, then we must also say that the "force" of God dissapears or vanishes when there is no further "load" to act on (i.e. something that God's power is exerting its influence on). The only way that it could continue to exist is if it had an inherent "load" at all times. It's no wonder this rationale prompts people to believe that the HS is an actual entity or person. If the formulas are correct (which i think they are), then this assumption must be true.
If the WTS claims the HS to be a force that wanders the universe doing good deeds, then mathematics (and physics) prove that the HS in this form cannot exist, and is a miscontrued theory at best.
Hope this clears thing up.