Do you care about calling the Watchtower a false prophet?

by drew sagan 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  BluesBrother

  Deut. 18.20

  However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that rophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.

  It seems clear to me that the WTS is a false prophet in anybody's book. I accept a point in a way, if a person is an atheist who believes that all religion is false then why worry if the WT identifies someone as, say Babylon the Great?

  But anybody is interested if a group predicts the end of the world, the death of us all. That affects everybody and can harm peoples lives. Also, I recall the WT once saying that the role of a prophet was to speak for God, not only to fortell the future. So if they claim to speak for God and "go beyond the things written" by adding their own words - they are a false prophet.
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  Nathan Natas

  I think it is possible for an atheist to judge the Watchtower by the standards the Watchtower claims to follow. The Watchtower says the Bible is God's word, and the Bible defines what a false prophet is.

  Thus the Watchtower is hoisted, squirming, on its own petard.

  Gregor made a good point: all prophets are false. Not necessarily because their predictions don't come true - some may appear to have come true as a result of simple coincidence - but because the channel of communication any prophet claims to have is bogus, a lie.
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  Jeremy C

  I believe that the Watchtower organization must be judged according to the same standards by which it judges other religions. If they think themselves to be so elite and so emphatically superior as to declare other Christian groups false prophets - while declaring themselves to be God’s prophet organization; then I believe that they have opened themselves up for this scrutiny by anyone.

  The Watchtower came out with a series of articles in the late 1960’s which stated that false prophesying consisted of proclaiming predictions in God’s name that did not occur even if the person or group had the best of intentions. It is difficult to understand how they could have printed such self-convicting material in light of their own failed predictions. Rutherford once remarked that he had made an "ass" of himself when his predictions did not come to fruition. I think that the organization as a whole has made an enormous ass out of itself which may have only added to the argument by some that the Bible is nonsense.

  I don’t think that a belief in God is a prerequisite for stating that the Watchtower organization fits the description of a label that they have placed on others. The Watchtower organization is like the emperor with no clothes who sees nakedness everywhere else. Anyone can point out this hypocrisy regardless of their religious beliefs - or lack thereof.
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  drew sagan

  I should have never put in that argument about people who don't believe in God calling the Watchtower a false prophet. It really wasn't the main point of my post and has made everybody totally miss what I wanted to talk about.
  
  MY apologies.
  
  Just to put out there what my main point really was...
  
  Some have mentioned judging the Watchtower by the same standards they judge others. This of course rests upon gathering together a Biblical definition. My feeling was that the Watchtowers continued obsession with forcing their followers to conform to a lifestyle that reflects confidence that the end is near is the more precise argument to make. You can argue whether their actions fit that of a label and/or definition, or you can simply look at the fruits of the behavior and judge accordingly.
  
  That's why I don't really care to much about the 'false prophet' label. Were does it lead us? It doesn't tell us what's wrong about predicting the end of the world. It doesn't tell us why it is a poor moral choice. It simply labels the behavior as bad and that's it. I rather bypass the label (which JWs themselves would deny as much as possible anyway) and go straight to talking about the effect and outcomes of the behavior.
  
  That's more along the lines of what I was interested in talking about.
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  Jeremy C

  Now I see the distinction you were making. Yes, the organization’s fetish for end-times urgency drum-beating has had a negative effect on it’s followers.

  The organization has devoted such an inordinate amount of time, energy, and resources into recruitment - that they have neglected so many of the needs of its members. I have noticed that other churches organize services such as youth groups, support groups for single parents, support groups for depression, and organized assistance to those in poverty. The Watchtower organization views these things as a waste of time, as all of their focus is channeled to the urgent recruitment of new members.

  This constant "end is near" mantra has caused so many in the organization to neglect giving attention to important areas of life such as retirement planning, education, and the decision whether or not to have children.

  The organization’s irrational sense of Armageddon readiness has indeed caused many to become tired and discouraged by "Jehovah’s delay". Of course, in reality, there is no such thing as a "delay". It is merely the fact that the organization has instilled expectations in its members where it should have shown discretion by keeping its lips in check.
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  Hortensia

  having gotten far enough away to see that all religion is damaging, I don't usually single out the WTBTS, although they are among the most damaging, it is true. But I think all religion is damaging and we'd be better off without it.
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  drew sagan

  The organization’s irrational sense of Armageddon readiness has indeed caused many to become tired and discouraged by "Jehovah’s delay". Of course, in reality, there is no such thing as a "delay". It is merely the fact that the organization has instilled expectations in its members where it should have shown discretion by keeping its lips in check.

  Exactly.
  
  While the application of a certain label such as 'false prophet' can be applied, I personally find it more advantageous to go after the effects of their behavior. Particular definitions are less important to me than speaking about the misdirection, confusion, expectations and disappointment that such beliefs bring. Over 120 of Watchtower history shows that every step of the way they have guided people to live life in a very short sighted way. Sure they did this in relation to 1914, 1925 and 1975, but the also did it in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. It is a pattern of behavior that is far more influential on the individual JW, one that they have all experienced.
  
  Not all JWs have experienced the fallout of a failed date. The last major date was 1975, which was 33 years ago, which means people under 30 stretching to those possibly in their early 40's in the organization have no idea that this probably ever happened. The 'false prophet' argument is one that had a much stronger pull during that time. Now the Watchtowers biggest sin is not just putting out dates, but continuing to demand that people continue to build their lives around a phony sense of awareness that the end of the world is near.
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  Witness 007

  You can call them a "Horses ass" if you like, I don't really care, the fact is they repeatedly predicted dates for Armagedon that never happened.
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  drew sagan

  You can call them a "Horses ass" if you like, I don't really care, the fact is they repeatedly predicted dates for Armagedon that never happened.

  I suppose my feelings was that I have seen some JW critics focus so heavily on how to apply the label 'false prophet' to the WTS that the destructive effects of their beliefs and failures sometimes take the back seat.
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  Nathan Natas

  Drew, thanks for clarifying your point. You are correct. Add to the list of damages delayed medical procedures with disasterous consequences, as in the case of my friend, Danny Haszard, who was denied medical treatment because Armageddon was so close and now has to wear an ostomy bag because disease took his bowel.