Are the USA and Russia the key actors in end time prophecy?

by scotoma 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  scotoma

  Inside the KH,

  You are correct. They have widened the scope of what disasters await the planet. However, it is THE BULLETIN OF ATOMIC SCIENTISTS. The ecological problems are probably included to create some buzz. In a way "nuclear winter" from a hundred or so city busting bombs would probably solve the "global warming" problem. The reason nuclear weapons are so serious is that you can't stop the process. The events that could cascade into a nuclear conflict are rooted in fear. Fear means emergency. Emergency requires a rapid response. It could be all over in less than an hour. The two entities that have the fire power to bring this about- Russia and the USA are now in a state of serious confrontation. This current confrontation emerged in a world that thought it had reached the end of history.

  The point I want to make is that without some kind of "sky-hook" we're all doomed as a species. There is no reason to believe that humans are going to change course. Territoriality runs very deep. We are of the same world as the animals. The world of humans that has naturally organized itself around it's greed for pleasure, comfort, and unbridled power is flawed and it can't reorganize itself. The world has to experience the consequences of this course right up to the brink of total annihilation.

  It will take just such a cataclysmic failure to dispose humans to try a new and different approach. We learn from experience. What we experience is - failure. This process is what the Bible means when it speaks about the end. The end of an ego driven world. The beginning of a world based on the basic requirements for living. If there isn't something bigger than us we are hopeless. The Bible speaks of a Kingdom of the Heavens. It remains to be seen what entities actually make up the "sky kingdom". We need something even non-believers can believe in.
• 

  Viviane

  So.... no prophecy talks about this, then?
• 

  scotoma

  My initial comments were meant to serve as a prelude to what I want to say about end time prophesies. I apologize for a couple poorly structured sentences. I wanted to establish that prophecy is ambiguous until it needs to be understood. Eventually it will be interpreted correctly and it will be understood by everyone. The matching game is not all there is to prophecy. The prophecy about the end has the purpose of generating certain behaviors. The prophecy isn't about sitting on a roof waiting to be levitated. It's about flight for survival. Physical flight. It is a time where those who believe will be able to say with confidence "This is it!"
  
  All the end time prophesies have a very obvious thing in common. The prophesies specifically talk about the succession of specific powers with a western vector. Each power achieves it's ascendency by conquering the previous power. This goes on until the last power is replaced "without human hands". "Without human hands" is mentioned twice referring to the rock that strikes the feet of the immense image. The destruction of the stern-faced king at Daniel 8:23 is accomplished "not by human power". The beast of Daniel 7 meets its end when some heavenly court rules against it and it is burned with fire. After the King of the North successfully brings an end to the King of the South he is destroyed by Michael the great prince. Revelation follows a similar pattern. The last contestants for domination are the Wild Beast and Babylon The Great. Babylon the Great is destroyed by the Wild Beast but the Wild Beast is tossed into the fire by heavenly entities.
  
  The chain of dominating powers doesn't go on forever. There are only four powers mentioned by Daniel. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. There is an extension of the 4th metal - iron in the feet and toes. This suggests an interesting development. The feet and toes are not a totally new empire but a continuation of the iron legs. The Watchtower makes a mistake in thinking that the Anglo-American empire is a continuation of the Roman empire. The Roman empire didn't end with the fall of Rome. The Byzantine empire centered in the densely populated Eastern Mediterranean was the continuation of the Roman Empire. When the second Rome (Constantinople) fell in 1453 the Russians claimed to be the inheritor of the Roman empire. Look up the Third Rome Concept. There is plenty of research on the internet. Also look up Russian Messianism.
  
  There has been some speculation about what the clay and iron mixture represents. The full understanding of this is quite clear when you do research on the "nationalities" problem in Russia. There are numerous books and articles about how Russia has had to accommodate over 100 distinct nationalities. I could give hundreds of links about this and no one will go through the bother of looking up reading and digesting the information. So here is at least one link that I have snipped on the subject of Russia's Nationality problem.
  
  http://trotsky1917.blogspot.com/2011/08/21-problem-of-nationalities.html
  
  Lenin on the National Question
  "Whatever may be the further destiny of the Soviet Union … the national policy of Lenin will find its place among the eternal treasures of mankind" (14).
  
  This conclusion to Trotsky's chapter on ‘the problem of nationalities' shows how highly he valued Lenin's approach to the National Question – not just for the Russian Revolution but for the international revolution as a whole.
  
  Trotsky explains:"Russia was formed not as a national state, but as a state made up of nationalities. This corresponded to its belated character. On a foundation of extensive agriculture and home industry commercial capital developed not deeply, not by transforming production, but broadly, by increasing the radius of its operation" (15).
  
  "To the seventy million Great Russians … there were gradually added about ninety million ‘outlanders' … sharply divided into two groups: the western peoples excelling Russia in their culture, and the eastern standing on a lower level. The vast numbers of these nationalities deprived of rights, and the sharpness of their deprivation, gave to the national problem in Russia a gigantic explosive force" (16).
  
  This amalgam of nationalities meant that a bourgeois revolution in Russia, instead of forging national unity as in countries like Italy and Germany, would tend to pull the different nationalities apart.
  
  "Lenin early learned the inevitability of this development of centrifugal national movements in Russia, and for many years stubbornly fought … for that famous paragraph 9 of the old party programme which formulated the right of nations to self-determination – that is, to complete separation as states. Only in this way could the Russian proletariat gradually win the confidence of the oppressed nationalities " (17).
  
  Remember the image is struck by a stone on it's feet of clay/iron and it is at that point that world empire's are dissolved making room for the stone that evolves into a large mountain and fills the entire earth.
  
  So there you have it. Russia is the last empire after it gains control over the whole earth.
  
  Part of the Roman iron like strength is in Russia but it doesn't hold together. It has become mixed with clay - the offspring of mankind.
  
  Next I will deal with the 7th chapter of Daniel and the dream of 4 beasts.
  
  
• 

  cofty

  Next I will deal with the 7th chapter of Daniel and the dream of 4 beasts.

  On the edge of my seat, gasping with anticipation.......

  Should I go to bed or sit up all night waiting for the next installment?
• 

  Perry

  I think the below fairly represents mainstream Christian thought on Russia:

  
  

  Others see “Magog” as a general term used in Ezekiel’s day to identify barbarians living near the Black and Caspian Seas. Regardless of the exact locations of Magog, Tubal, and Meshek, there is no doubt that the general area includes portions of Russia and the former Soviet Union, and possibly some Arab countries.
  
  So, yes, the Bible does mention Russia, although not by that name, in connection with the end times. Ezekiel 38—39 definitely refer to a nation coming from northern Asia to attack Israel. After the Cold War, Russia lost its super power status, making the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy seem unlikely in some people’s eyes. However, recent events have shown that Russia is gaining strength, and many believe that the invasion of Crimea is just a first step in Russia’s plan to restore its dominance in that hemisphere. It is also interesting to note that, in the Soviet era, Moscow was solidly aligned with several Muslim countries in opposition to Israel. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia has continued to make overtures to the Muslim world.
  
  According to the Bible, there will come a time when Russia, in alliance with several other countries, will amass a huge army against Israel, with a view to plunder the Jews’ land. The nations aligned with Russia for this military endeavor are Persia (modern-day Iran), Put (modern-day Sudan), Cush (modern-day Libya), Gomer (part of modern-day Turkey), and Beth Togarmah (another portion of modern-day Turkey or possibly Syria). Most of these nations are currently militant Islamic states with an express hatred of Israel. Ezekiel says that, when the aggressors move against Israel, a few other nations (“Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish”) will remonstrate, as will “all her villages”—possibly colonies (Ezekiel 38:13). Sheba and Dedan are associated with areas of northern Africa. Tarshish could be a reference to Spain (which colonized much of South America), Britain (which colonized the United States), or somewhere in eastern Africa. The objections to Magog’s aggression will fall on deaf ears, however, and the invasion will continue.
  
  Some commentators believe this war is one of the events leading up to beginning of thetribulation. Others believe it will occur close to the midpoint of the tribulation, since Israel will be “dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates” (Ezekiel 38:11)—in other words, Israel will feel secure at that time, possibly because of the covenant they have signed with the Antichrist (Daniel 9:27). Either way, this battle is distinct from the Battle of Armageddon, which occurs at the end of the tribulation.
  
  
  Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Russia-end-times.html#ixzz3U8WBqYQ0
• 

  Village Idiot

  @ Perry:

  "...Russia, in alliance with several other countries, will amass a huge army against Israel, with a view to plunder the Jews’ land."

  What will tiny Israel have that the Russians will want to plunder?
• 

  wizzstick

  The chain of dominating powers doesn't go on forever. There are only four powers mentioned by Daniel. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

  Did Daniel mention these by name? Or do believers ascribe these nations to the four beats retrospectively?

  Hmmmm?
  
• 

  wizzstick

  Village Idiot

  @ Perry:

  "...Russia, in alliance with several other countries, will amass a huge army against Israel, with a view to plunder the Jews’ land."

  What will tiny Israel have that the Russians will want to plunder?

  Stop that Village Idiot!

  Last thing this situation needs is logic and reasoning.
• 

  Perry

  This writer below offers some possible reasons why Russia might want to invade Israel:

  LINK

  LINK 2
• 

  Village Idiot

  @ Perry: "This writer below offers some possible reasons why Russia might want to invade Israel:"

  That question was very simple. Couldn't you give a simple answer instead of a mere link?

  I read that link and it is pure conjecture. It implies that energy sources may be one thing that Russia covets but the truth is that Gazprom is likely to hold far more in reserves than a miniscule nation like Israel may have in yet to be discovered reserves. Israel is not much in the way of competition when someone looks at a map of energy sources. In comparison Russia has 6.6 million square miles compared to Israel's 7,800+. That comes out to approximately 850 times more land area.