Why The WTS *IS* To Blame re. Laree

by ISP 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • ISP
    ISP

    The WTS will condemn the recent murder and do its best to distance itself from the parents. JWs will say it’s the actions of people who are deranged and nothing to do with JW’s. They will say other religious groups harm children. However, only those with knowledge of the WTS really know how culpable the organization is for this crime and many others.

    What outsiders and journalists do not realize is the extent that the WTS regulate the everyday actions of JWs. Other religious groups have little control over their followers. The WTS basically commands its followers to preach and meet five times a week. The influence spreads into the areas of personal association, dress , grooming and even in sexual matters between married couples. It is therefore wholly unacceptable for an organization, having so much control over the minutiae of people’s private lives, to say what it does about the physical disciplining of children….and to leave so much unsaid.

    Scotland has recently banned the physical punishment of children under 3. England hasn’t in that it believes its laws based on reasonableness protect children of all ages. The WTS prides itself in being a ‘spiritual nation’ of 6 million people…more than some countries. Does it seek to protect children from abusive parents? The smacking of children of all ages is commonplace during the meetings themselves. It is looked upon favourably. There is no hint that this treatment of children is unacceptable. Even though it is simply unreasonable to expect children to sit for so long… at times they often should be in bed. What happens at home is anyone’s guess. But we now know only too well in this case what can happen behind closed doors. This is another example of the standards of the world being higher than those set out by the WTS. The WTS looks down on the ‘world’ and ‘worldly’ people without realizing their own standards are of the gutter.

    ISP

  • thewiz
    thewiz

    I'm not justifying these people murdering a/there child. I am not familiar with this particular case, although I do agree with you that the WTBS will distance themselves from it.

    But I do not recall the WTBS condoning child abuse. How do you consitute child abuse?

    Do you think I want my child not remembering what hit him/her as that big old Ford Explorer/Expedition/Excursion comes barreling down on him/her, well over the speed limit, and then burying them 3 days later? Or would I rather them remember the beating they got from running out in the street... AGAIN?

    And when I say beating I don't mean removing arms and legs.

    I got beat with a metal coat hanger and a horsewhip. Now that's abuse.

    But an open hand on the backside and a slap on the mouth for answering back one too many times? Come on. I'm not talking about fist bashing abuse.

    However, many times I have found that depriving them of something works better. No TV, Games, going to bed early, etc.

  • ISP
    ISP

    Hi thewiz....I saw physical punishment condoned every meeting. Don't you remember all those trips to the bathroom? I think if you have to beat the ....out of your kids to teach them road safety...you have a problem.

    ISP

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    ISP -

    I agree with you completely.

    Wiz -

    No offense intended, but you should look at the other half-dozen threads posted here in the past 3 days on this subject. In a NUTshell, a brother in Chicago beat his 12 year old daughter to death using a length of electrical cable the thickness of a garden hose. His JW wife, who claims to be a trained nurse, gagged the girl to silence her screams. In addition to this, the parents forced some of their other children to participate, making them tie the 12 year old spread eagle on a bedframe, stripped naked, and had the kids turn her over so the "scriptural" beating could be administered on both sides of her body from her shoulders down. The report says she was struck about 160 times with this HEAVY cudgel.

    I'm sure you would agree that this is indefensable.

    Can anyone show me ONE quote from a WATCHTOWER of ANY year telling parents to displine with restraint? I doubt it.

    What support program does the WTS have to help the other children in this household overcome the trauma of participating in the murder of their sister?

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    Wiz,

    The WTS's leaders cliam that JWs are the "happiest people on the planet." This creates internal pressure to appear happy. The Society has also discouraged JWs from seeking assistance from counsellors, psychologists and the authorities.

    People come in all forms and any group of 6m + will have its share of people who need help or who should not be allowed to be in charge of children. The WTS simply must institute clear procedures and policies to identify problems early and get them taken care of. By making the JWs such an insular organization they have helped cut off sources of external help. So it becomes their responsibility to deal with the consequences in a "proactive" fashion. They have accepted the power that comes from claiming to speak for God but deny the responsibility.

    Lionel Poles Hartley

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    Nathan,

    There are several, and pretty consistently stated too;

    This from the Sep. 1992 Awake!

    The Bible's Viewpoint

    "The Rod of Discipline"-Is It Out-of-Date?

    "Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the
    rod of discipline is what will remove it far from
    him."-Proverbs 22:15.

    "Any physical punishment is emotionally abusive and
    should not be sanctioned."-Parents Anonymous.

    THE BIBLE'S mention of "the rod of discipline" ignites
    fiery controversy. This is understandable, for each
    year thousands of children die as a direct result of
    physical abuse by a parent. Perhaps this is why one
    Bible commentary passes off the Bible's sanction of
    physical punishment as merely a "culturally
    conditioned opinion."

    But cultural opinions did not inspire the Bible-God
    did. (2 Timothy 3:16) Are its comments on "the rod of
    discipline" unreasonable? It is important that we
    examine "the rod" in its context. To illustrate: The
    individual pieces of a jigsaw puzzle make little
    sense. It is only after fitting them together that one
    can see the whole picture. Likewise, "the rod" is just
    one piece of the puzzle. To see the full picture, we
    must fit "the rod" in with other Bible principles
    related to discipline.

    A Balanced View

    Does the Bible endorse only physical punishment?
    Consider the following advice:

    • "Never drive your children to resentment."

    • "Don't over-correct your children, or you will take
    all the heart out of them."

    'That's much more reasonable than the Bible's advice,'
    some may say. But this is the Bible's advice. It is
    recorded at Ephesians 6:4 (The New Jerusalem Bible)
    and Colossians 3:21 (Phillips).

    Yes, the Bible's viewpoint is reasonable. It
    acknowledges that physical punishment is usually not
    the most effective teaching method. Proverbs 8:33
    says, "Listen to discipline" not, 'Feel discipline.'
    And Proverbs 17:10 points out that "a rebuke works
    deeper in one having understanding than striking a
    stupid one a hundred times." Furthermore, Deuteronomy
    11:19 recommends preventive discipline, taking
    advantage of casual moments to instill moral values in
    one's children. Thus, the Bible's view of discipline
    is balanced.

    What About "the Rod"?

    Still, the Bible does mention "the rod" of discipline.
    (Proverbs 13:24; 22:15; 23:13, 14; 29:15) How is this
    to be understood?

    The word "rod" is translated from the Hebrew word
    she'vet. To the Hebrews, she'vet meant a stick or a
    staff, such as that used by a shepherd. In this
    context the rod of authority suggests loving guidance,
    not harsh brutality.-Psalm 23:4.

    She'vet is often used symbolically in the Bible,
    representing authority. (2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 14:5)
    When referring to parental authority, "the rod" does
    not refer exclusively to physical punishment. It
    encompasses all forms of discipline, which most often
    need not be physical. And when physical discipline is
    employed, it is usually because other methods have
    proved unsuccessful. Proverbs 22:15 says that
    foolishness is "tied up" ("anchored," NJB;
    "deep-rooted," The New English Bible) with the heart
    of the one receiving physical discipline. More than
    mere childish frivolity is involved.

    How Should Discipline Be Administered?

    In the Bible, discipline is consistently linked with
    love and mildness, not with anger and brutality. The
    skillful counselor should be "gentle toward all, . . .
    restrained under evil, instructing with mildness those
    not favorably disposed."-2 Timothy 2:24, 25.

    Therefore, discipline is not an emotional outlet for
    the parent. Rather, it is a method of instruction. As
    such, it should teach an erring child. When
    administered in anger, physical discipline teaches the
    wrong lesson. It serves the need of the parent, not
    that of the child.

    Furthermore, effective discipline has boundaries. "I
    shall have to chastise you to the proper degree,"
    Jehovah says to his people at Jeremiah 46:28. This is
    especially vital to remember when administering
    physical discipline. Hitting or shaking an infant can
    lead to brain damage or even death. Going beyond the
    intended purpose of discipline-to correct and to
    teach-may lead to child abuse.

    The Bible Does Not Promote Abuse

    Before correcting his people, Jehovah said: "Do not be
    afraid, . . . for I am with you." (Jeremiah 46:28)
    Discipline should not leave a child feeling abandoned.
    Rather, the child should sense that the parent is
    'with him' as a loving, supportive encouragement. If
    physical discipline is deemed necessary, the child
    should understand why. Proverbs 29:15 says that "the
    rod and reproof are what give wisdom."

    It is a sad fact that today many use "the rod" of
    parental authority abusively. Yet, fault cannot be
    found with the Bible's balanced principles. (Compare
    Deuteronomy 32:5.) When we consider "the rod" in its
    context, we see that it serves to teach children, not
    to abuse them. As in other matters, the Bible proves
    to be "beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for
    setting things straight, for disciplining in
    righteousness."-2 Timothy 3:16.

    [Footnotes]

    The book Outgrowing the Pain: A Book for and About
    Adults Abused as Children cautions: "Spanking can
    become child abuse when it is done in an
    out-of-control way, with enough force to leave
    injuries. Using instruments to hit, spanking with a
    closed fist, hitting very young children, and hitting
    in vulnerable areas (face, head, stomach, back,
    genitals) can increase the likelihood of corporal
    punishment becoming child abuse."

    The book Father Power, by Dr. Henry Biller and Dennis
    Meredith, notes: "Physical punishment need only be
    quite mild to be effective. If it comes from someone
    he loves and whom he knows loves him, the emotional
    impact will be enough to make the child think about
    what he has done."

    [Picture Credit Line on page 26]

    The Bettmann Archive

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Thanks for the quote Lionel, that came out more than 15 years after I left. I stand corrected on this point.

    What do you think the congregation will do about these two parents?

    What will become of the remaining, non-dead children in this family?

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    Nathan,

    Probably DF them. It seems to me that the WTS has accepted huge social issues that it doesn't understand how to deal with. When they tout spanking they don't realize that there are some who will go to extremes, or if they do realize it, they refuse to admit it because they think it makes God's org. look bad. The WTS needs to accept that it has to volutarily and openly deal with problems that arise, and that when these things happen, they are only to blame if they have failed to put procedures in place - which to date they have failed to do.

    What do you think? The frustrating thing about the WTS is that a few small (in one sense) but significant changes would transform it into a powerful force for good and positivity.

    Lionel

  • Bridgette
    Bridgette

    Thank you ISP. You have pointed out just a few of the reasons why they cannot just wash the blood of this little child from their hands and walk away without the stench of her death clinging to them forever.
    As I posted earlier, this case--Laree's story has left me emotionally overwraught. I want her story told over and over and over again, until every good JW sitting in the meetings witnessing or even suspecting abuse gets a good whiff of the ugliness that their policies bring. I want these decent human beings to stand up and say NO MORE! I want them to show that these children's lives mean more than the "sterling reputation" (not) of the organization and report suspected child abuse.
    And maybe any active witnesses will ask why? If the organization is SOOO anti corporal punishment-drip-with-the-milk-of-parental-kindness all of a sudden---why is abuse (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc) an all too common theme of growing up a Jehovah's Witness? We ain't all lying here about our stories (both witnessed and experienced) of abuse.
    As I stated in my earlier post, this girl's blood cries out from the ground. They will not walk away from this one. They must not only apologize for their sick, twisted teachings and record on children's and womens' rights, and they must cease promoting covertly corporal punishment.
    Bridgette

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    ISP good post,I also agree with you!>>>Lionnel P Hartly.were you ever a jw kid,(I mean raised in it from a baby.)I was.Do you know know there are 2 type of rules there?The written and the unwritten,it all depends on which one serves you best at the time,as to which one is used.WTBS can write and rewrite their policeys at will and they do.The fact remains they support and always have supported corporal punishment and if things get too rough they just distance themselves from the whole affair. WHY? Because the bastards are cowardly bullys!!...OUTLAW

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