There is so much evidence around us to prove an Intelligent creator.

by nicolaou 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  WTWizard

  Remember, the theologan theory needs all three elements to prove a God that is worthy of worship. Especially if He is not maximally benevolent, then He is not worth worshiping.

  We could have a God that is omniscient and omnipotent, but not maximally benevolent. In fact, the evidence I have seen leads to that conclusion. And I would not want to live forever under His oppressive headship. I would rather worship Satan, even though he is not all-powerful or all-knowing. At least Satan might do real good just to slap Jehovah in the face.
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  Deputy Dog

  nic

  Complicated things do look designed. The human brain does seem to suggest an intelligent creator.

  This debate isn't about the "evidence". It's philosophical.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  IP-SEC - That was an interesting piece that you posted.

  Those who believe that mankind was created by a god, mostly believe the Bibles line that we were created in Gods image.

  However the rules of nature apply to us as much as other animals. If the way we live and treat this planet is flawed we too could become extinct.

  The fact that we are bound by the same natural rules that animals are and face the same risks and dangers, seems to suggest that we are made in the image of animals not a God.

  This should lead us to question whether there is a God that exists in the image that many have assumed.

  TG
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  greendawn

  The nature of man is dual, it has an animal part and certainly a unique spiritual part that puts man in a league totally above that of animals which can not speak, think, create, direct, walk on two legs, do not have a unique face and voice (strict individuality) as each human does. I would say any similarities are coincidental rather than essential. I don't know about other people but I don't consider myself to be an animal. The whole idea of man's fulfillment is to be what animals are not that is spiritual reaching out for the more complicated, the more developed.
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  Sirona

  It doesn't have to be one or the other.

  My worldview includes a "God" but this God is not separate from the universe, rather this force (God) permeates the universe.

  Qaballistically speaking, the material Universe is an "emanation" from divinity. Therefore the way it has evolved reflects the subtler energies from whence it originated.

  This answers both questions. Evolution is fact. Yet evolution is influenced by divinity in such a way that we have commonalities amongst things in the universe from the smallest thing to the largest thing. The material universe is a reflection of God.

  Mystics have had this view for quite some time, so thankfully, I didn't make it up myself.

  If anyone is interested, study the Qaballah of the Western Mystery Tradition (a la Dion Fortune). The tree of life as a glyph is a representation of the universe and its ongoing development. Its very, very interesting and has totally changed my view of the world.

  Sirona
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Greendawn

  'Reaching out for the more complicated, the more developed,' is not nessecerily a spiritual endeavour. It is part of our desire to exploit our full potential.

  I can see by your avatar that you consider yourself to be more than an intelligent animal.

  The desire to be more than we are is driven by our imagination. I could believe that I am the reincarnation of a famous Gladiator. Then again its is more like that I am deluded.

  fallaces sunt rerum species
  (The appearances of things are deceptive)

  TG
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  greendawn

  This desire for perfectionism, greater awareness, order and beauty is a characteristic human trait. Human beings also have a conscience (hopefully) and are answerable for their actions. It's a lot deeper than a mere deceptive surface of things it's a central and distinguishing part of human nature. Anything worthwhile is born only in the vast expanse of the human spirit.
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  nicolaou

  This debate isn't about the "evidence". It's philosophical.

  With respect DD that's just a shameless attempt at a diversion. This is my topic and as it's title suggests it concerns evidence, not philosophy. Could it be that you have a reason for wishing to shove a discussion like this away from evidence focused debate?
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  hamilcarr

  The nature of man is dual, it has an animal part and certainly a unique spiritual part that puts man in a league totally above that of animals which can not speak, think, create, direct, walk on two legs, do not have a unique face and voice (strict individuality) as each human does.

  You're into Descartes? Time to move beyond the mind-body split.

  For these reasons, we argue that this doctrine [dualism] represents a limited understanding of human reality and undermines our abilityto comprehend fundamental aspects of human suffering.
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  Deputy Dog

  nic

  Could it be that you have a reason for wishing to shove a discussion like this away from evidence focused debate?

  Yea! It's...

  How can we start off this debate about intelligent design and can we all agree to try and keep it civil?