IF there were two classes/callings why were all early Christians limited...

by oompa 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  oompa

  ...to ONLY being called to heaven as part of the 144k? God is not partial, and does not predestine people, so why could first century Christians not have had an option for paradise on earth? I got to thinking about this since last year WT opened the doors to heaven again for the masses for the first time since 1935.

  From 1935 to 2007 the only real option open for must dubs was paradise earth...NEVER was it taught that "hey, you could be called to be in heaven...so keep an open mind to ruling over all mankind with Jesus for a 1000 years." At least I never heard that talk..................oompa
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  NeonMadman

  I'm betting this will be the next "new light." With the anointed now being an ongoing calling, the numbers will look more and more ridiculous. Deciding that the other sheep have been being called right alongside the anointed since the first century would relieve them of a lot of doctrinal problems centered around the concept that there could have been less than 144,000 faithful Christians between the first and 20th centuries. It would free them to admit that the thousands of Christians who died in the Roman arenas and in many other persecutions were, in fact, true Christians and not phonies.
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  greendawn

  The anomaly is that once the positions got supposedly filled there is no point to becoming an elite by developing an oustanding spirituality based on many sacrifices because this won't give you anything extra.
  
  And yes why didn't the early Christians have the option of being first class (lots of effort) or second class (a lot less effort) members?
  
  Obviously an artificial concept.
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  oompa

  Geeze Greendawn, if someone with over 12,000 posts doesn't have an answer for this question, I think I'm in trouble. I have never thought of the 1st class 2nd class think as far as it being harder work to be an anointed. But I would like to know what the reasoning is behind saying that first century Christians were all of the annointed.

  And good thought Neon, adding in the Great Crowd from day one would solve a mystery....I hope nobody at Bethel sees my post.....oompa
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  Hope4Others

  why could first century Christians not have had an option

  The didn't have a spirit directed GB, tried, tested and true to provide new light at the right time!

  lol

  hope4others
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  Hope4Others

  By the way I'm joking!

  hope4others
• 

  hamilcarr

  There were two classes (Jews and Gentiles), but not 2 callings. According to Revelations, both the great crowd and the 144,000 serve in God's heavenly temple.
• 

  TD

  Why were all early Christians limited...to ONLY being called to heaven as part of the 144k? God is not partial, and does not predestine people, so why could first century Christians not have had an option for paradise on earth? I got to thinking about this since last year WT opened the doors to heaven again for the masses for the first time since 1935.

  ...Because the great crowd survive the great tribulation. You could not have been a member of the great crowd in the year 1700 for example, because you have no prospect of surviving an event you will never live to see.

  The great crowd must live within one generation of the end. --Else they are not the great crowd.

  This is why the JW's can fiddle around with the definition of the "generation" all they want and it won't change a thing. To truly free themselves from the ticking clock, they will have to modify the great crowd doctrine.

  (All the above is spoken strictly within the context of JW theology...)
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  Zico

  Oompa,
  
  Revelation 7 says this of the Great Crowd:
  
  13 And in response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation...
  
  This leaves them in a tricky position, theology wise, as you can not be a part of the great crowd if you do not live through the 'great tribulation'. This is why the Society teaches that anyone who dies before Armageddon is not a part of the great crowd, they almost become a third group: The non-anointed resurrected. Practically everyone who has ever lived who has died and is not part of the anointed is in this third group, and will be resurrected to the Paradise Earth, whether they were faithful 'Christians' or not, and all they have to do, is be lucky enough to die before Armageddon.
  
  Saying then, that early Christians had an 'Earthly hope' is to put them on a level with basically every other person who ever lived no matter their religious beliefs, which would suggest following God was a waste of time if they never managed to achieve the anointed status. Time is already making this problematic for them, as so many have become JWs and died since 1935, and they get no extra reward for the years they spent serving Jehovah, as they gain nothing they wouldn't have gained anyway, but when Rutherford invented the doctrine in 1935, he had no concept of the world going on for 73 more years.
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  TD

  NeonMadman

  Deciding that the other sheep have been being called right alongside the anointed since the first century would relieve them of a lot of doctrinal problems...

  I think this would resolve some problems, but it could create others.

  Christians aren't supposed to serve god for a reward, but salvation is still an integral part of Christianity. Allowing for the existence of "other sheep" who are not also members of the "great crowed" in the Christian era creates a third group of Christians who do not attain to the salvation that the JW's believe Revelation describes for the other two groups.. --In the language of Revelation, this third group would neither sing the "new song" on mount Zion nor would they wave palm branches before the throne and shout.

  What would be the difference between a Christian with the earthly hope and a non-Christian? For example, in practical terms, what would be the difference between a Christian with the "earthly hope" who experienced a violent end in a Roman arena and a non-Christian? As far as their final destiny is concerned, none. The JW's believe there will be an earthly resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. So why be a Christian at all?

  For that matter, what would be the difference between a JW, who died faithful in a concentration camp and someone else who never bothered to become a JW at all, avoided imprisonment in the death camps and lived a long and happy life? If the JW had the "earthly hope" there is no difference. Both individuals will be resurrected to life on earth.

  Currently, very few JW's actually think about such things, but deciding that the other sheep have been called since the first century will call attention to it.