You Know: Three Possibilities

by NeonMadman 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    After jousting a bit on these forums with perennial poster You Know, I have wondered about his status with the JW organization. He claims to be a JW, and he claims that his elders, circuit overseer, and even the Society are well aware of his activities here on the net. Notice the following remarks he has made:

    I can assure you that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    The Society knows me and they know what I do on the net. There's no hypocrisy on my part.
    But as we know, the Society strongly discourages JW's from engaging in this type of activity on the net, and absolutely forbids contact with "apostates" (as the Society defines them), of whom there are many here. Just on that basis, it seems that YK could not engage in the activity that he does here and maintain good standing among the JW's.

    But to make matters worse, YK expresses many thoughts here that would, in themselves classify him as an "apostate" (again, as the Society defines "apostates"). In one recent thread, he said:

    Paul said that human tribunals were a trivial thing to him. They are to me too. For your info: The elders and my CO know what I do. So does the Society. I live by the knowledge that I will stand and fall before Jehovah. He is my judge.
    The above quotation was in response to my remark that YK would be disfellowshipped if the elders knew what he does here. In effect, he was saying that he has no concern about judicial committees, and does not consider men to be his judges. While I admire that sentiment, it is the sort of statement that could get most JW's into a lot of hot water.

    In a thread on disfellowshipping, Ginny_Tosken cited the following as remarks that YK has made with reference to the UN scandal:

    I am more convinced than ever that Jehovah's judgments are going to lay the Watchtower low and that only the faithful, those who really do love the truth and actually have faith in Jehovah, will survive the purge and eventually be restored to his favor. . . .
    There is no question but that what the organization needs is a house cleaning, beginning with the house of God, otherwise know as Bethel. Jehovah is in a perfect position to do just that. . . .

    I have no interest in the petty power politics that undoubtedly go on at Bethel. Human nature naturally stratifies any organization into progressive and conservative factions. You can see that in the local congregational level and I am sure it exists at the top of the organization. . . . The only thing I am concerned with is Jehovah's will and word. That's why I am content to do my thing and let them do theirs knowing that Jehovah will do his thing in due time. And indeed, his work is strange as Isaiah testifies. At some point the brothers will realize that the sheet is too short for covering themselves with, then they will have no choice but to sit down and re-read the Bible and jetison a lot of the stuff that we have been saddled with.

    The only person I have spoken to about the UN scandal is my wife. I hope that I can keep my mouth shut and not disturb my brothers with this thing. . . . Really, the Bible says that it is beauty to cover over transgression. So, I really don't want to call attention to the scandal. It's a shameful thing in my opinion. Its disgraceful. . . .

    The Watchtower probably isn't going to be the agency through which those answers come during the crunch time. I think I might be in a position in the future to redirect the loyal ones more succesfully into the truth.

    Certainly remarks such as the above would be interpreted as "apostasy" in most JW congregations, and dealt with swiftly and severely. In addition, I have observed YK posting at length about economic and political matters that would classify him as 'part of the world' in JW terms.

    So, how do we reconcile YK's claims of being a JW acting with complete openness with the Society's known policies of oppression and suppression of anyone who dares to take issue with their teachings? It seems to me that there are only three possibilities:

    Possibility #1: YK is lying. He has either never been a JW or is a former JW who nonetheless believes the majority of the Watchtower's teaching and believes he will enhance his credibility here by claiming to be a JW in good standing.

    Possibility #2: YK is partly lying and partly telling the truth. He is telling the truth about being a JW, but lying when he says that his elders, CO and the Society are all aware of his activity here. Alternately, perhaps he has informed them that he is active on the net without telling them the specific facts that he associates with "apostates" and makes statements that are either anti-Watchtower or out of harmony with Watchtower teaching. Either way, if this possibility is the correct one, YK is a hypocrite within his own religion.

    Possibility #3: I find this possibility the most intriguing of all. Perhaps YK is telling the complete truth. He is a JW in good standing, and his elders, CO and the Society are fully aware of his activities here. If this is the case, it is yet another prime example of the Society's hypocrisy and double standards. Many of us here who have been JW's can testify that if we had associated with "apostates" and said the sorts of things that YK says here, we would swiftly have been hauled in front of a judicial committee and booted from the congregation. Why, then, is YK exempt from this sort of treatment? Apparently, this is another of the Society's double standards. Perhaps they feel that he is their Jehu on this forum, sent to rout the apostate hordes? In any event, if this possibility is the real one, an exception to the rules has been made, much like the blood issue in Bulgaria and the Mexico/Malawi affair.

    I'd be interested to know what all of you think about this question. And, if YK should wish to clarify matters, I'd be happy to hear from him, too. I wish him no ill will; I wish he would come to see clearly the failings of the organization he defends so vigorously. Of course, he could clear up the matter very easily simply by posting his real name and the congregation to which he belongs, then anyone who wanted to know could simply contact his local elders, who I'm sure could verify his actual status with the congregation.

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I would find it odd that the Society has chosen You Know as its spokesman here, but stranger things have happened.

  • dubla
    dubla

    Possibility #4 you know is completely delusional, his congregation is aware of his mental illness, and they leave him be. he drinks from the cup every year, and they cannont counsel against this (for only the annointed know for sure), but they also realize its most likely part of his personal delusions. if he is indeed fully candid with his elders, then they too have heard his ridiculous ravings, and have no doubt already written him off (in private sessions), as extremely unstable and mentally ill, and therefore ignore his obvious apostasy.

    aa

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Possibility #4 you know is completely delusional, his congregation is aware of his mental illness, and they leave him be.

    OK, that one hadn't crossed my mind, because mental illness usually won't stop a judicial committee from acting, at least in cases I have heard of. It's much easier to df the delusional person than to deal with their delusions on an ongoing basis. But I guess it's a possibility.

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • NameWithheld
    NameWithheld

    Na, I've seen cases where there is one local nut-job in the congo that is tolerated due to a) family, b) money, or c) the congo sees them as 'mostly harmless' (a-la the earth being 'mostly harmless' in The Hitchhikers Guide )

    I lean towards Possibility #4 myself ...

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    I think that he is telling the truth. My guess is that YK is a formidable opponent in a head to head and I doubt very much if his fellow dubs ever disagree with him, I expect even his PO treads very softly when he's around, so they will avoid counselling him much, if at all, just so things can run relatively smoothly.

    I expect he says something to this effect: "Brothers, I feel very strongly that Jehovah wants me to refute apostate teachings at every opportunity" - he'll quote some obscure scripture - "so I intend to stand up to them as often as I can".

    He wont have said that he spends hours daily on the net, he will however have covered himself by saying something like the above. If he is discovered, he will then be able to say that he made it clear that he was going to refute apostate teachings. Its a old trick, basically in the UK we call it bolting a piece of half-inch steel plate over your arse.

    Englishman,

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • logical
    logical

    Whatever he is, he is a false prophets and repeatedly proves himself to be one yet he is blind to that fact.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Whatever he is, he is a false prophets and repeatedly proves himself to be one yet he is blind to that fact.

    Has YK ever actually claimed prophetic status? Making a false prediction alone is not sufficient to be called a false prophet, you also have to claim to be a prophet or to be speaking God's words.

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • California Sunshine
    California Sunshine

    Hi,

    Sure, I'd like to know the "troof" about YK too (like thats ever going to happen).

    YaKnow is a legend in his own mind!

    Although I'm not going to go into details, I know personally of a case where a person was kicked out of the cong. because they were mentally ill and the elders couldn't deal with it. I guess it couldn't be helped, after all, how can you expect toilet cleaners and shoeshine boys to deal with someone with a mental problem?

    It always amazes me what qualified people they pick to head their congs.

    Sunny

  • nytelecom1
    nytelecom1

    he is just stringing you along like the puppets you all are

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