Organ Transplants and Abortions

by DoomVoyager 6 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • DoomVoyager

    Please note that I only actually agree with premises 1 and 2; the rest are just for demonstration.

    1. In the past, the GB banned all organ transplants.
    2. Witlesses died becuase of this ban.
    3. The GB has lifted the ban on organ transplants.
    4. There was never any scriptural basis for a ban on organ transplants.
    5. Despite having killed people through unscriptural teachings, the GB is not bloodguilty becuase those people will be resurrected in the New System.

    Now then:

    6. Aborted babies will be resurrected in the New System.
    7. Mothers who abort their babies are not bloodguilty.
    8. Abortion is a-OK!

    Any flaws here?

  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    The society doesn't talk about it much, but they teach that aborted or miscarried babies will not be resurected.

    Only babies that inhale a bit of air will be resurected.

    But of course, getting an abortion is still considered murder.

  • DoomVoyager

    Really? So unborn babies are considered so precious to Joe Hobo that you can't abort them, even if they're going to be hideously deformed or totally disabled, but they aren't precious enough for his lazy ass to resurrect them...?

  • jwfacts

    I have always thought this completely insane. The Watchtower teaches an aborted baby does not get a resurrection as it is not a soul until it takes its first breath. Yet abortion is wrong. Go figure. It seems to stem back to the Watchtower concept of a soul not being a separate entity.


    Myfriendhadamiscarriage.AsawomanIsympathizewithher,butwoulditbepropertoencouragehertohopeinaresurrection?You certainly can do much good by giving her comfort and loving Christian help. But the Bible does not provide a basis to expect a resurrection of the embryo. Consider why:

    When a woman conceives, there is just one cell, a fertilized egg. Normally, over a period of nine months that cell divides and implants in her uterus, the embryo develops, and finally a child is born. A miscarriage cuts short this natural process, ending the life that has begun and that should grow into a separate human. If an abortion is performed, it conflicts with the sanctity of life and with God’s command against murder.—Exodus 20:13; 21:22, 23; Numbers 35:16-18; 1 Peter 4:15.

    Our Life-Giver is aware of a life growing in the uterus, as we can see from what the Bible says about Jesse’s wife carrying the embryo that developed and that was born and named David. (Psalm 139:13-16; compare Job 31:15.) What, though, about the possibility of a resurrection in instances of miscarriage or stillbirth?

    The Bible acknowledges that a fetus or an embryo can die. This results in spontaneous abortion, or miscarriage, or in a stillbirth.—Genesis 31:38; Exodus 23:26; 2 Kings 2:19-21; Job 21:10; Psalm 58:8; 144:14.

    Job mentioned various ways in which a miscarriage can occur, any of which he felt would have been better for him than the suffering he was experiencing. He said that he might have been "a hidden miscarriage," someone who "should not come to be, like children that have seen no light." (Job 3:16) This could refer to a woman’s miscarrying even before she realized that she was pregnant and while the embryo was not viable. TheBodyMachine states: "Many ova [fertilized eggs] do not develop normally, a greater number in fact than those which do. About ten per cent fail to implant and of those that do about half are aborted spontaneously, usually without the mother knowing."

    Job also said that if ‘the doors of his mother’s belly had been closed, he would have been concealed from trouble.’ So he would have escaped suffering if he had ‘proceeded to die from the womb’ or "in the womb." (Job 3:10, 11, NewWorldTranslationoftheHolyScriptures;Rotherham) Serious defects in the embryo or fetus sometimes cause this. Or it may result from abnormalities in the mother’s reproductive organs; deficiencies of vitamins, hormones or oxygen; or maternal disease.

    In his agony Job felt that such possibilities would have been better for him. Yet his mother would have been saddened, even as are women today when inherited imperfection results in miscarriage or stillbirth. In mentioning those possibilities, Job did not say that he would have been in line for a resurrection anyway. The benefit, as he saw it, was that he would have been concealed from trouble or have been undisturbed.

    Job added another possibility: "Why did I not come forth from the belly itself and then expire?" (Job 3:11) If, as sometimes occurs, Job had been born and soon thereafter died, maybe even before having been suckled, what might his future prospects be? He did not in the context discuss that. But later he showed that if, after having lived as a human, he had died and gone to Sheol, God likely would ‘set a time limit and remember him.’ Our Life-Giver ‘would call and Job himself would answer.’ Yes, Jehovah God could bring Job back to life, resurrect him.—Job 14:13-15.

    This accords with our knowledge of resurrection in Biblical examples. Those who were resurrected evidently were brought back to life as the individuals they had been at death. That is, children who died were resurrected as children, adults as adults. (2 Kings 4:17-20, 32-37; Luke 7:12-15; 8:40-42, 49-55; John 11:38-44) Would it be reasonable to think that if a "hidden miscarriage" had occurred in Job’s case, in the New Order that microscopic embryo would be restored to his mother’s womb to continue a pregnancy of which she might have been unaware? That does not conform to what the Bible shows about the resurrection, which always involved persons who had been born and existed as separate individuals before God.—John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15.

    But what if the embryo was more developed, had become a fetus or even was close to full term? There are many possible situations. However, there is no point in speculating, for there are countless sad consequences of imperfection suffered today. In the restored Paradise our loving heavenly Father will reverse man’s sinful condition and bring marvelous blessings. Many people will be resurrected. The decision as to how the resurrection will be carried out, and to what extent, rests with Jehovah and Jesus. We can be sure that the decision will reflect Jehovah’s perfect wisdom and justice.

    Elihu assured Job: "Far be it from the true God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly! For according to the way earthling man acts he will reward him . . . Yes, for a fact, God himself does not act wickedly." (Job 34:10-12) All of us, including couples who have had the very sad experience of a miscarriage or stillbirth, can take comfort in knowing that "good and upright is Jehovah."—Psalm 25:8.

    The reasoning if pretty shallow. God would not need to resurrect a baby as a fetus, any more than it would have to resurrect a dwarf as a dwarf, or a person that died of cancer and alzheimers disease or missing limbs in the exact state they were in at death.

  • DoomVoyager

    I might bring this up to my bookstudy conductor. Is there some way I can frame it without seeming like a raging apostate?

    (the whole Organ & Abortions thing, not just the crazy abortions particle).

  • Gordy

    Exodus 21:22,23 states that if a pregnant woman is injured by another person and she miscarries and the child is born dead. The person who caused it should pay with their life.

    If the Watchtower teaches an aborted baby does not get a resurrection as it is not a soul until it takes its first breath.

    Then why did the Law of Moses take it seriously, that a child killed during pregnancy was just as bad as murder. That the person causing it paid with their life.

    If the child is not a soul until it takes its first breath, then why put someone to death for something that was not yet a "soul"?

    Which on the Watchtowers reasoning means the child does not yet exist. Therefore a person is put to death for killing someone who has not existed??

  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    Lots of luck speaking with your bookstudy conducter about it. Here's my prediction of how he will respond.

    1. he'll just blow you off.

    2. He will agree with you, shrug his shoulders and drop the subject.

    3. He will say, "trust in jehovah" and drop the subject.

    I've spoken with a number of brothers and elders about the whole abortion is murder, but the embryo is not worthy of resurrection thing. Adn I hardly got more then a glazed look in response.

    The cognitive doissonance is to much, they will have to shut down or think, and we all know wich one a true JW will do.

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