by badboy 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • badboy



  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    Declare Armageddon has arrived of course!

  • jaguarbass

    LIke Mickey Mouse said.

  • Alpaca

    Thanks for starting this thread.

    This is not so far fetched, when you consider that the bubonic plague wiped out approximately 25 - 50 % of the population is some areas during it's peak in the 13th and 14th centuries.

    Dubs and other fundies will suffer equally with the rest of us if there is a truly global catastrophe. The thing that burns my ass, is that many of these extreme religious groups (including the Dubs) abrogate all responsibility for their civic duty as citizens of the earth and contentedly "leave everything in God's hands." Goddamit, there is nothing empirical to show that there is any divine interest in the earth (save the millions who have been slaughtered in the name of religion) or that there is a god who is going to solve the problems humans have created. It's up to us and the sooner we face that the more secure we will be. That said, I am not optimistic that humans have that ability.

    The really troubling thing is that we are in totally uncharted waters with regard to population. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries Thomas Malthus and other thinkers began to consider the effects of unchecked population growth. For example, I am 51 and the population of the earth has more than doubled in my lifetime and the doubling time is shrinking. Many scientists think that we are seeing Malthus' predictions play out before our very eyes. The earth is experiencing one of the biggest mass extinctions in geologic history, but outside of academia there is absolutely no sense of how dire things are. We are reaching a point where whole ecosystems may collapse with devastating consequences.

    Additionally, there are so many other things coming down the pike at the human family, all at once, that any one of them could be the tipping point. Some of those things include the potential for pandemic, the end of cheap, abundant petroleum, the trend in many countries toward either authoritarian rule or chaotic social and political unrest, the potential for an unidentified NEO (near earth object) to do a repeat of events that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. Also, global climate change and sea level rise are going to displace hundreds of millions of coastal residents worldwide over the next century.

    Sure, some of these things are more remotely probable than others (e.g., NEO disaster), nevertheless the point is that there is little concerted, unified effort at any political level to solve any of these problems and there is certainly nothing politically promising on the horizon.

    All I can say sometimes is that humans (as a species) are pathetic.

    Sorry, for the rant.


  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    The WTBTS would say - Ah, told you so!! And then gleefully rub there hands as suffering and misery spread around the globe.

    On a more serious note - A number of years ago there was a fuel blockade in britain, only for a few days. The tanker drivers went on strike.

    But pretty quickly the fuel pumps started to empty. People had to join a queue to fill the tank in there car.

    One afternoon I joined one of these queue's and when I got near the front I saw a group of men fighting on the forecourt because a guy had jumped the queue. Its not that there was no petrol it was just that there was a shortage and it was being rationed, if people were patient and waited 30 minutes or so they would get the fuel they needed.

    The wives and kids of these guys were sitting in the cars watching. All a bit scary.

    This highlighted to me that when the essentials are taken away - i.e. food, electricity, water, fuel etc humans go into self preservation mode.

  • kurtbethel

    It is always safe to bet against the doomsday predictions, as we have seen countless times.

    However, the possibility for regional short term and medium term disasters is very real, and it could happen to you.

    Last October there were large areas here in San Diego county that were burned by wildfires, and at various times nearly a half million people were under evacuation orders. In America, the national policy on disasters is "you are on your own, good luck." Indeed, in disasters like Katrina, the feral government not only failed to provide much timely relief, they obstructed private efforts to do so.

    Local assets vary in quality from top quality to unreliable. So it is really up to you to have training and supplies for disaster preparedness.

    Things like medicines, important documents, and personal supplies are only readily available if you prepare for them to be. Taking it up to the next level with generating your own power and communications can be done with moderate expense and reasonable training. I am active with ham radio, and my personal kit includes solar power and hand crank power. I have tried this in the field and can use 2 way and listen to broadcast radio indefinitely.

    Besides fires, floods and quakes, there are events that can happen far away that can cut reliable supply chains and make things very uncomfortable. If you are facing long term changes, then a change in your lifestyle will come with it, whether you are ready or not.

  • Kinjiro

    If you are a serious student of human history, it is a fact that civilization has collapsed a number of times over the years... being civilization 'the state of being' of any given time... Civilization as the babylon people knew it collapsed... the greeks.. the romans.. etc etc... Civilization applies to all aspects and if history is right, needs to collapse in order to change and provide some type of growth...

    If you look at the root of the most significant issues or problems civilization has today, you can identify three major sources: Religion, Politics & Racism... these three issues are responsible for most of the big problems and conflicts that affect civilization.

    These sources are so deeply embedded into our civilization that the only way to erradicate them would be for civilization to collapse..probably including the erradication of 80-90% of humanity... leaving the rest to either unite or face extinction...

    It is not a matter of "If civilization collapses..." it is a matter of 'When civilization collapses...' which in lieu of what I have expressed is not such a bad thing... it is part of the natural order...

  • PrimateDave

    As Kinjiro said, civilizations in the past have collapsed. It is a fact of history and archeology. I recently read Jared Diamond's book, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. Notice that it is not a given that societies must fail. There are some success stories, and Mr. Diamond examines what factors contributed to those successes.

    Also, for us to state that modern industrial civilization with its advanced technology is already a success would be to ignore the fact that it has only existed for a few human generations on a global scale. I certainly appreciate the wonders of technology and life as I have come to know it wouldn't be possible without it. But at what cost do we live the way we do?

    Back in the early '70s, a scientific study was made about the Limits to Growth. There is a fascinating article and discussion about The Limits to Growth here:

    Cassandra's curse: how "The Limits to Growth" was demonized

    All this to say that our civilization, with its religious belief in continuous growth, is its own worst enemy. Now, if the computer models are any indication, civilization will collapse this century. So far I see no grand scale undertaking to change the public discourse in a direction to prevent this collapse. Instead, all we get from our "leaders" is talk about making growth "sustainable." Pandemic, wars, and famines may occur, but the underlying reasons will be resource depletion and pollution in its various forms. And, yes, eventually the lights will go out, at least as far as large scale public utilities are concerned.

    Personally, I'm going to try to live as long as possible no matter what. No one can say for certain what will happen in the years to come, but it should be interesting. The expression, "may you live in interesting times," is said to be a curse. I think I will take it as a challenge.


  • Mincan

    What really pisses me off is I've been talking about all this stuff since early 2005 and everyone has been looking at me like I was nuts, now when the f**k** S*** is shoved in their face they all jump on board. That's why 90% of humans suck, they aren't intelligent. And here's a scary thought. 50% of people are below average intelligence (meaning their R-factor and Limbic system control their Central Nervous System, and hey, without my dextroamphetamine allowing my neo-cortex to work, I'm somewhat similar to them), and being of average intelligence "ain't" much either...

    Here, fetch, I haven't seen this yet myself, but it looks to be the kind of shows Americans would need to see. It was on the "History Channel"... if you want to see non-fear mongering proper documentaries on the subject let me know got a dozen or so links for yas...


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