God Damn America - in context

by mavie 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    BTW, why doesn't Wright, dressed in his African homeland garb, ever say, "God Damn Africa"?

    Think Liberia, Rwanda, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Angola, Burundi, Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo, Guinea, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc. At best, abject poverty and lack of basic human and civil rights. At worst, starvation, beatings, rapes, slavery, imprisonment, unimaginable torture, dismemberment, castration, and wholesale slaughter on a scale that has clogged the Nile with the mutilated bodies of men, women, children and elderly. And this is up to present times, not distant history.

    Here is an interesting counterpoint to Rev. Wright's remarks about America, from the former African bureau chief for the Washington Post, black author Keith Richburg:

    "We are told by some of our supposedly enlightened, so-called black leaders that white America owes us something because they brought our ancestors over as slaves. And Africa - Mother Africa - is often held up as some kind of black Vahalla where the descendants of slaves would be welcomed back and where black men and women can walk in true dignity.

    "Sorry, but I've been there. I've had an AK-47 rammed up my nose, talked to machete-wielding Hutu militiamen with the blood of their latest victims splattered across their T-shirts. I've seen a cholera epidemic in Zaire, famine in Somalia, a civil ware in Liberia, I've seen cities bombed to near rubble, and other cities reduced to rubble because their leaders let them rot and decay while they spirited away billions of dollars - yes, billions - into overseas bank accounts.

    "So excuse me if I sound cynical, jaded. I'm beaten down, and I'll admit it. And it is Africa that has made me this way. I feel for her suffering, I empathize with her pain......and I still recoil in horror whenever I see yet another television picture of another tribal slaughter, another refugee crisis. But most of all I think: Thank God my ancestor got out, because, now, I am not one of them.

    "In short, thank God I am an American."

    Gee, no whining about not being able to get a taxi in America because he's black?

  • JeffT
    JeffT
    Jeff: There is room for discussion in your assertion that there is no more segregation in the armed services:

    I made no such assertion. I was pointing out that when called upon to do so, the US military escorted black children into previously whites only schools. However in his book Colin Powell says that the US Military has done a credible job of building a (mostly) color blind society.

    Burn: I was only counting Union dead. I agree that the price was higher, but I don't want to get into an argument about what, exactly, Confederate soldiers thought they were defending.

  • Fadeout
    Fadeout

    Mavie, that's pretty lame. Your response to what I posted is to quote my humorous, silly post from another non-related thread? And that proves what, exactly?

    Is that your way of agreeing that AIDS was just a creation of the white conspiracy to wipe out the pigmented?

    I said that Wright is a racist, lying, hate-fomenting maniac. As much as that statement may seem to be coming from a place of intense emotion, that is not the case. It is merely factual. The fact that Wright is a racist needs no explanation and I don't think has been disputed; some of his most serious accusations are lies; these accusatory, slanderous lies have the effect of fomenting hatred; and these facts combined with his shrieking "God damn America!" like a radical Muslim jihadist lead me to the reasonable conclusion that he is a maniac.

    Tone is a difficult thing to convey on a message board, especially since I'm too lazy to figure out how to make smileys. I may pull no punches in my arguments, but I'm not actually getting worked up about them.

    As far as needing professional help... well, there was this pastor I saw who was screaming "God damn America"... he could probably use some.

  • Fadeout
    Fadeout

    When we make statements like "the black leaders say that..." or "the white community thinks that..." we are entering the world of broad-brushing. We are likely to point out such an untrue statement in the opponent's argument, i.e., "Don't say that ALL white people think like that... you can't read my mind!" But then we may turn around and do the same thing ourselves.

    I know that not all black people consider Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan their leaders. I know that not all white people hate black people.

    If a black person is willing to give me the benefit of the doubt and not assume I am a racist, I'm quite willing to view them as a friend. But implying or insinuating that someone is racist just based on their skin color is insulting. Ironically, it's racist.

    Can I know what's in someone's mind just by looking at them? Of course not. Yet that's what many seem to feel comfortable doing when it comes to this subject. That's what makes it possible to refer to a "typical white woman."

    Rev. Wright advised self-examination. At least he got that right... who doesn't have at least one rafter in their eye?

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    "So excuse me if I sound cynical, jaded. I'm beaten down, and I'll admit it. And it is Africa that has made me this way. I feel for her suffering, I empathize with her pain......and I still recoil in horror whenever I see yet another television picture of another tribal slaughter, another refugee crisis. But most of all I think: Thank God my ancestor got out, because, now, I am not one of them.

    "In short, thank God I am an American."

    Gee, no whining about not being able to get a taxi in America because he's black

    I heard that same sentiment being expressed by an elderly black woman (she identified herself as such) on a radio call in show when this issue came up. She set out to remind everyone that the glass can be half full and that the USA has risen far above much of the past. sammieswife.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    My point is not to defend this Reverend, or examine his greater ouvre. My point is very limited, responding to, 'I find it very very hard to swallow any so-called "context" which excuses the words of Reverend Wright under any circumstances.'

    If you deny there's a context within which his words make sense, you may be missing the ability to empathize with a valid experience.

  • oompa
    oompa

    Why does context matter more than the intent? What was he trying to accomplish? It is not just what you say, it is how you say it, and he was trying to get the congregation to reach a specific conclusion. I do not think it was a positive unifying message.............oompa

  • Terry
    Terry
    What black leaders, Terry? Any black minister I've known (if you want to call a religious person a leader) prayed for Jews to believe in Jesus to be saved yadda yadda yadda.
    Do YOU know any?

    Don't take my word for it.

    Read this: http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/7/27/90631.shtml

  • Terry
    Terry
    Terry, I respectfully submit that you paint all Black people with too broad a brush.

    I don't use the word "all". That would be painting with a broad brush.

    Excerpt from Juan Williams' book:

    Leaders or Shills?

    Moreover, Williams said, Jackson and Sharpton are paid by competitors to stage phony "civil rights" demonstrations at companies.

    "Because one company wants to get access to a cable system, for example, they have these people out there demonstrating as if this is a civil rights issue," Williams said. "They're trying to embarrass [companies] by having people like Jackson and Sharpton pull up in limousines and lead these demonstrators. It is a total farce."

    Beyond failed leadership, Williams takes aim at "a culture of failure" among blacks.

    "That culture says that you are acting white if you're a good student, that says that going to jail is just a right of passage, or that crime is acceptable in the black community," Williams said. "You know, you celebrate drug dealers and gangs, and you say, 'That's authentically black' when you see criminal behavior. How self-defeating! What a negative image to take on to yourself, but even worse, to put on your children."

    The whole notion of victimization is being promoted by "failed leaders, and it's creating a culture of failure that's undermining poor people, it's undermining minorities in this country," Williams said. These leaders "make excuses and want to argue about why there's a heavier penalty for crack cocaine than for powdered cocaine," Williams said.

    Rap music only furthers this destructive message, according to Williams.

    Education Is the Key

    But if black people want to help themselves and break through the culture of victimization, they can look to President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act, Williams said. "Here's a president who's actually looking at the fact that these schools that serve an overwhelmingly minority population are failing to properly educate those kids."

    And with No Child Left Behind "we're going to know if you're educating your students or not. We're going to know if the black kids are all being routed into some lower-end classes, not being allowed to take tests, and failing and dropping out," Williams told NewsMax. "[Bush] is insisting on accountability. Who does this benefit? Black kids, Hispanic kids, their parents and their community at large. It insists that the school system educate all children."

    For too long, Williams added, "Schools were not being held accountable. In part because the Democrats were in the pockets of the [teachers'] unions."

    With his Cabinet selections, Bush has set an example of what blacks can achieve, Williams said. He cited two African-Americans as secretaries of state, a secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and a former secretary of Education who are black.

    "You know, for all the talk about a cabinet that looks like America under Clinton, Bush has a better record of diversity in his cabinet than Clinton did," he said.

    The good news is that the self-defeating culture can be changed. Instead of blaming white society, black leaders should be encouraging African-Americans to get a good education and avoid drugs.

    Just Say No

    "Bill Cosby said he's never seen the NAACP lead a march against drug dealers," Williams said."You change the culture by getting groups like the NAACP to start admitting that what's really undermining the success of black families and black children is when a crack house opens in the neighborhood and people tolerate and allow that to happen."

    They say "'We can't do nothin' about it,' or 'We're waiting for the police.' You know what? That is a civil rights issue."

    Williams, a former Washington Post reporter, said the NAACP and black leaders should be sending the message: "Don't use cocaine. This is something that is highly addictive, it will cripple your family, it will damage your community, don't do it."

    And they should be saying, "If you finish high school or go to college, if you make sure that your kids have wonderful experiences instead of sitting in front of the TV, if you teach them to work hard, this is a country that will reward you," Williams said.

    "You have too many people who don't understand that if you simply delay having children, don't have children as teenagers, you put yourself in a position to have tremendous success.

    "They should know to get married before having children. These are basic steps that almost guarantee that you will not live in poverty in this country." Williams said, "You never hear that message."

    In calling the book "Enough," Williams issues this call-to-arms: "Enough of these phony leaders who focus on victimhood and victimization. Enough of this kind of dead-end talk about celebrating criminals and bad behavior. Let's look at what works and how people can lift themselves up."

  • Terry
    Terry
    When we make statements like "the black leaders say that..." or "the white community thinks that..." we are entering the world of broad-brushing. We are likely to point out such an untrue statement in the opponent's argument, i.e., "Don't say that ALL white people think like that... you can't read my mind!" But then we may turn around and do the same thing ourselves.

    When we talk about "men" or "women" we don't assume ALL men or ALL women.

    When we talk about whites and blacks there is often a knee-jerk response--as though--ALL is implied.

    In Reverend Wright's comments about Rich White People how much slack do we need to cut before his comments sound cogent, prudent and devoid of exaggeration?

    Wright's rant about THE GOVERNMENT sounds like Wright is condemning all of America because of the policies of some of the Republican party. Is that painting with a broad brush too?

    Is GOD DAMN AMERICA just the bad people in the United States? If so, it is so poorly thought out and worded by a man with three Master's degrees as to be incomprehensible as a statement to be taken as anything but utter hatred.

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