Spiritual or biological?

by R.Crusoe 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    I recall reading some of Freud and whilst some of it seemed far fetched in the extreme other parts seemed ugly and reality!

    I have a puzzle I'm pondering: I'm annoyed with myself because I cannot concisely and succinctly pose the question in a cryptic fashion but here goes-

    Evil v's Holy and whether it is a reality or a construct of humanity for the advantaged!

    Take human sexuality as just one arena to explore the above!

    Freud indicated much of humanity oscillates around envy for the male phallus!

    It being the focus of female desire in certain 'attractive' males and ensuring they reach the maximum state of female pleasure!

    And my hunch is that all males tune into the subliminal nature of this female 'envy' and desire to fulfill their desire!

    Problem!!

    Any male perceiving themselves unable to fill the 'role' will become intimidated and withdrawn from the very females he has a natural inclination to want to please and associate with!

    Any male perceiving themselves to be more than able to fulfill that role posed by females will likely openly actively inteact with the females he desires and experience confirmation if what he feels is reality.

    The withdrawn male will have biological advances taking place which almost force misguided situations and ones less natural than the 'confident' male!

    Thus without even thinking about religion or what is evil and good - natural selection has set up situations which show some males will be accepted and welcomed by females on a journey through life and some will be rejected both by themselves, their inept advances and their own biologically enforced reactions which for some may involve wrongdoing!

    Now add religion into the equation and you may even have forced scenarios where an attractive male is disuaded from female contacts by religious dogmas and ultimately loses out on how to more easily interact with them and reads such to men he is amongst the class of males he perceives as 'disposeable' by females or 'non - guarantees' for sexual fulfillment.

    And I focus on this 'male ' situation since it appears to me there are more actions, classed criminal, against males in terms of sexual incidents than female and I wonder if it is a reality that males are more evil and females more holy or if in fact we are all missing something that it needs addressing?

    Rarely do I imagine any government or ruling class sits down and attempts to resolve the above issues without bringing good and evil into the equation?

    Is it a good - evil question or one of genetic good fortune giving advantages to lucky individuals who natural selection favoured in their never having to commit 'wrongs'' to fulfill biological urges since an imaginary god gave them more than their fair share? And then the 'holy' religious thinking further oppressing sex creating additional biological 'inner conflicts' further distilling the whole status quo above!

    Which leads me onto my final question:

    Should we view ourselves more in terms of 'natural selection' or is evil and holy the reality of humanity?

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Biological psychology has a lot to say on how our bodies influence our behaviour.

    The idea of absolute evil and absolute holiness is a man-made construct.

    In my world view, evil is simply varying degrees of imbalance.

    Sirona

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Are you asking if natural selection sets some males up to commit sexual crimes against women? Maybe I am misunderstanding you.

    There are no excuses for sexual crimes. It is unacceptable behavior.

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    I am asking for intellectual rigour absent emotional reaction!

    I'm not attempting to influence any thought or develop an agenda but to uncover what is at play in some people being more able to find love and romance and all the joys of life that come from such events and the networks of people it helps develop around them!

    And conversely those who find it tough to find love and physical attention within a body given them by nature are possibly less favored by natural selection in being helped to lead a 'holy' life!

    You are saying there are no excuses and maybe focused on crime as a reason to ignore the wider picture - but that wasn't the debate - the debate is whether nature does in fact set some males up whilst others are born far more advantaged genetically and so less likely to experience chains of events that may lead to complications.

    Your reaction infers you think the whole debate is about good vs evil and has no link whatsoever to natural selection.

    Observing all the facts may give you a new perspective? They must be facts and not emotional reactions to what you are considering!

    Scientific observation does that!

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I can't answer the question without knowing what you mean by "complications"?

  • SPAZnik
  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    Well - as to your question about complications - possibly similar complications that also contribute to a female ending the life of her own unborn child which she would never do in circumstances where she were in love and the human bond a natural and wholesome one, - that would be the last thing on her mind IMO! We see lots of examples of understanding shown females having gotten into such unfortunate situations!

    Its my notion that all manner of human activity which leads them into trouble can be traced back to their or their carers not having established 'advantaged' natural selection on their sides in helping them along in love and life! So I'm interested in whether its a religious question at all - or one more to do with good fortune and human expectations coupled with how well natural selection gifts you the ability to meet those expectations

    I'm fully aware that confronting subjects with an open inquiring mind is something many adults are completely incapable of due to decades of conditioning actually preventing them even considering the possible causes, save those which give them a rapid answer of it being 'evil' when confronted with theories they feel in danger of proving otherwise.

    To prove otherwise was not my intention but I get the impression some actually love the idea of judgement and punishment so much it prevents them gaining any understanding whatsoever beyond current ideologies - and we've all been in that headspace as JW's.

    So far my hunch is confirmed!

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    RC,

    I'm not trying to be difficult or judgmental with you. I just don't understand what complications you are talking about. I do believe that nature/nurture affects all of us in many ways. Some get a much better foundation genetically and emotionally through love shown to them.

    You give the example of a mother choosing to abort a child, so I'll run with that. There are many pressures and often a total lack of support that may drive a woman to abort her child or she may do it strictly because of inconvenience. I knew a woman once who aborted her child because it interfered with a planned vacation. I am not anyone's judge.

    Is that spiritual or biological?

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    My crystal of thought lies in whether;

    It is evil / good that influences human actions?

    Or things within natural selections-

    combination of biological needs

    each persons sexual beaty in the eyes of others

    subsequent generations power and control

    Financial superiority etc. etc etc.

    In short - all the things some humans are born into that set them up with a massive advantage in accessing all and every humans need and desire without even trying..............,

    Against - those humans who for whatever reason experience years of oppression or rejection or lovelessness till they break and seek out satisfaction of anykind they have available like a dog starved close to death.

    So - are you yet in the headspace I am in?

    I conced I am finding it tough to relay it - my bad - I have no intelligent other to help me out!

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I do think circumstances or disavantages in life can drive a person to behave in ways they might not otherwise. We all have basic needs and when they are not met for long periods of time, desperation sets in.

    I don't think any of us know to what extent we would go if placed in various extreme situations. Is it evil that drives such behavior or just desperation? I would say the latter, desparation.

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