JW policy on Girl Guides and Scouts?

by HB 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  HB

  Hi there,

  I have come to this forum on the recommendation of an ex Jehovah's witness who has been very helpful. Although he has given me some useful information, he suggested I post my question on here too to see what others have to say. Being new, I am not sure if I have chosen the right topic heading but if not forgive me!

  I have no involvement personally with JWs but have a young friend who is currently undergoing Watchtower Bible study sessions and working towards Baptism. Briefly she is 20 years old and a very nice person but has had difficult problems in her past which have left her vulnerable and desperately seeking for something to believe in.

  I first met her when she was 10 and a Guide in our village (I should mention that I am a Guide Leader in the UK, and Guides is the equivalent of Girl Scouts for those of you in the USA. Brownies are young Guides aged 7 to 10).

  When my friend was about 16, I arranged for her to come and help at a Brownie Pack and that has been mutually very helpful and she is currently going through the training to be a Brownie Leader herself. The Brownies love her and it has given her enormous self confidence.

  She only relatively recently got involved with the JWs and does not have any family connections to them. She explained to the other Brownie Leaders that she would not be able to participate in helping with making Mother's Day cards, Easter crafts or attend any traditional ceremonies held in the local Churches such as Remembrance Service for soldiers who died in the Wars etc. But she believes that there is no problem with her being a member of both Guiding and the Watchtower Organisation.

  Guiding is a multifaith organisation and the only requirement of membership is to make the Guide Promise. The words include promising to love MY god, which means more or less any other religion from Muslim to those who worship nature can say the words.

  This is the Promise she has already made and as a member of GirlguidingUK will be expected to uphold and help the Brownies to understand:

  I promise that I will do my best:
  To love my God,
  To serve the Queen and my country,
  To help other people
  and
  To keep the Guide Law.

  (The 6 Guide Laws are not controversial, just general requirements like being considerate etc )

  She can change the word "God" to "Jehovah", but then I understand that she is not allowed to pledge to serve her country.

  I don't think she has yet given serious consideration to this point, and it seems her teachers are being less than honest about what will be required of her. Am I right that they save the most difficult life-style changing requirements until after the Baptism?

  From the perspective of the Guide Association, she could be a non-member Unit Helper, which would avoid her having to make the Promise, but still enable her to help with the Brownies. However the ex JW who I mentioned earlier tells me that the Elders of her congregation will not even allow this involvement once she is Baptised.

  The only concern I would have if she does find a way around belonging to both organisations is whether some of the parents of the Brownies would have a problem with a leader being a JW. I am pretty sure that she would not try to convert the girls and anyway she is not the leader in charge, so there would be little opportunity for this as there would always be other leaders around.

  I would be grateful to hear if anyone has any experience or knowledge on this subject. Has anyone heard of a JW being a Scout or member of a similar club?

  Many thanks,

  Heather
• 

  DoomVoyager

  No. When you are baptized, you explicitly swear an oath dedicating your life to the Watchtower Biblical Lies Society. Any volunteer or charity work outside of the organization is severely frowned upon and will be punished accordingly. You are expected to spend ALL of your free time "volunteering" to go around and knock on empty houses.

  Oh; and welcome aboard. You will soon find out some surprising facts about Jehovah's Witnesses. Read around. :)
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  choosing life

  Here in the states, it is a disfellowshipping offense to join the girl scouts. Being a leader would certainly be out of the question. These organizations engage in nationalism, according to the watchtower.

  She needs to ask them outright if she is permitted to continue as a member after baptism. The elders go over the questions for baptism before a person qualifies. She needs to ask them too.

  The problem is, the farther into this teaching she goes, the less chance she has of breaking free from its control. You need to help your friend to avoid baptism. This teaching may be a good place to start. Time is of the essence though.
• 

  strawberry cake

  Welcome to the board!
  
  Well recently me and my son decided to join the scouts. I have recently left the org though not disassociated. At the start of scouts meeting the kids stand in a circle and the flag is raised. Also there was a new scout making his pledge, and indeed he had to pledge to serve God and the Queen and country.
  
  My son is 11 and raised a JW asked me after if it was ok. I said it was now because we are no longer following JW rules, just our own consciences.(All that pledging and flag saluting is an absolute no no in JW land!) We discussed it and will proceed as we see fit.
  
  It would be virtually impossible for us to be part of the scout movement, if we were still JWs. Also I feel it would be unfair to the other children for us not to fully participate and support the group. The scouts do a lot of good for kids and for charity.
  
  So really, the two do not mix ..You're friend will have to stop being involved with the guides or the JW or be under a lot of pressure and stress if she tries to do both.
  
  xxx Strawberry Cake.
• 

  38 Years

  I don't think she has yet given serious consideration to this point, and it seems her teachers are being less than honest about what will be required of her. Am I right that they save the most difficult life-style changing requirements until after the Baptism?

  You are right. They are being "less than honest" about her requirements. They want people to get baptized because they feel they are saving lives. Only Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armeggedon, and they have been taught they are living in the "Last Days" and sincerely feel they are on a life-saving mission. Because of this, they will "dance around" any objections their bible studies may have. They are obligated to start bible studies and get people baptized as quickly as possible before "The End" comes. If Witnesses don't do this, they will receive everlasting punishment from God (Jehovah). If you don't follow their beliefs, you are told you are serving Satan. You are either on God's side and become a baptized Witness, or you are on Satan's side. Being a Guide or a Girl Scout would definately be labeled as serving Satan.

  If your friend won't stop stop her bible study, please warn her to delay her baptism as long as possible until she does more research on the internet. Of course, she can never tell her study conductor that she is looking outside of the literature that they publish (The Watchtower, the Jehovah's Witness version of the Bible, etc.) .

  What you have heard is correct. Once she is baptized, the loving attention she is getting now will eventually turn into the responsibility she has to be loyal to the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. The pressure gets overwhelming to obey the beliefs. All of the Witnesses rules and beliefs are backed up with scriptures, but these are taken out of content from the Bible and explained to fit their beliefs. Using guilt, fear of everlasting death and rejection by God, she will have to follow their beliefs or she will be threatened with dishonoring God. She will be warned and may be brought before the elders to decide if they want to remove her from the organization. If she is removed ("disfellowshipped") she will be shunned by every member of Jehovah's Witnesses. Once you have wrapped your entire life around the Witnesses, this is very painful. You can read some of the other posts here on the board to see what others have experienced with their practice of shunning.

  Hopefully you can get your friend to ask some questions on this board. We truly care about helping others avoid what we went through trying to quit or being thrown out and shunned. Also, Google Jehovah's Witnesses or Watchtower to get websites for the facts about this organization.

  Welcome to the board! Take care
• 

  edmond dantes

  Welcome to the board and good question.

  The JWs have many things in common with Adolph Hitler this is one similarity which you speak of ; he abolished Scouts and Girl Guides etc. replacing them with the Hitler Youth.The Jdubs do the same they call it Jehovah's youths of today or young pioneers .
• 

  HB

  Thank you to all those who have replied, I am shell-shocked to read how pernicious and negative the whole watchtower Organsation is - the more I hear about it the more determined I am to try to keep my friend away from them.

  Seeing as everyone seems to be in agreement that the two Organisations are not compatible, I am hoping that will be my lever as I'm sure my friend will be seriously unhappy to give up helping the Brownies which she enjoys, in favour of going around the houses trying to convert people. I will take up the suggestion of telling her to go to the Elders and asking direct about their policy, as if I tell her, she may not belive me, but if they do, there is no doubt.

  I'm just wondering what happened before the internet when there was no obvious place to turn to for advice in these circumstances! Its amazing what power the web has - in this case it might be that because of you kind people, a whole life can be turned round. Lets hope so!

  Thanks again not only on my behalf and my friend's (although she doesn't yet know about you), but also on behalf of the Brownies and Guides!

  Best wishes

  Heather
• 

  DoomVoyager

  Sadly, what happened was that a very large number of people were entrapped in the cult without ever being exposed to a single alternative viewpoint.
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  WTWizard

  Here are some of the problems associated with those kinds of organizations that the Witchtower Society has created:

  (1) Nationalism. If you join the Scouts, you will have to pledge allegiance to the flag again, on top of the once you do for school itself. You pledge to honor the country, which could clash with the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger.

  (2) Schedule. When I was a Cub Scout, they had meetings on Wednesday after school (for which you are supposed to be out in field circus). Sometimes, it can clash with a boasting session. I have had a few Cub Scouts trips that ran into boasting sessions (which I didn't even have to worry about because I was not a witless at that time). Many activities are held when you are supposed to be out in field circus, and many of the badges take field circus time to earn.

  (3) Holidays. I can remember taking a Readers Digest magazine and making a little Christmas tree out of it. I also made an Easter basket. Do that, and the Tower is going to have your head at the judicial committee.

  (4) Church involvement. Some of those things are held at churches. Ours was held at a church at times when it became necessary to move the meetings up to evenings. And some have religious services in addition to the political issues.

  (5) Associations. Join the Scouts, and they will harp on those bad associations at the Kingdumb Hell. All that "worldly" association will make you marked, and they will hound you mercilessly for that alone.

  (6) Hobbies. Time taken for arts and crafts, often engaged in by Scouts, is time that could be spent out in field circus. And the money will be "better" placed in the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund. You will find yourself serving two masters--and the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger has zero tolerance for anything that takes away from them.

  Anyone that is going to get baptized as a witless will have to give up all forms of scouting. Otherwise, you will be saluting the flag, celebrating holidays, and maybe getting involved in another religion (even in a tangential way). Judicial committees and hounding sessions are likely to follow. Or, you can drop the witlesses and stay in the Scouting. That, to me, would be the better option since scouting prepares one for personal situations, even if one does not intend to stay seriously nationalistic.
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  StAnn

  WTW, since the OP is not an ex-JW and is new to the board, you may wish to redo your post without using the jargon that makes so much sense to the rest of us but would be completely confusing to an outsider. You have good points. I'm just afraid that terms like "boasting session" may completely confuse the OP and your points will be missed.

  OP-I wanted to be in Girl Scouts but was prohibited because they are considered a patriotic organization. JWs are not allowed to be patriotic or participate in anything patriotic. If your friend has been a guide for many years, she probably has a strong sense of patriotism which she will have to surrender to become a JW. Appeal to her patriotism!