Is apartheid really dead?

by LouBelle 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  Layla33

  LouBelle (my response to your second post to me)

  Of course now the boys are saying they didn't piss in the food, now that it has gotten international attention, there is always a lot of spinning.

  Here's a point I think you are missing, I am not putting ANYONE on a pedestal, there are crimes that the black natives do, just like there are crimes that white settlers do, indians and colored, there is no one better or worse in that regard, because your country is in a terrible state right now. Again, not surprised by it whatsoever.

  You have to know that I am laughing about Indian collegues "still" referring to my comments at all. So what? I mean, I wrote my opinion, I haven't even read this thread till today because I happen to be off from work, so anyone that is "still" focusing on a silly topic on a forum needs to either get a life or focus on the bigger picture because this is not it. Now, again, let's not make this more than what it is, I responded to you because you wrote like your experiences were the only valid explanations and thoughts on what is going on. It really read like you were demonzing the black natives of the country and I notice that even now, when other parts of the system are criticized, you always always always fall back on the "blacks" and what they have done wrong. Well you know what, until you get out of that ideology in your responses, there will not be any healing even in you. If you don't want to be attacked racially, why do it to others? Isn't that the reason why there is such disenfranchisement in South Africa anyway? I mean again, if you are unable to look at the bigger picture, you are lost. And honestly I do believe a lot of South Africans are lost because they have been so contaminated in their thought processes by the Apartheid rule, that even trying to have a fair and balanced view of healing is corrupt.

  Well, yes I do believe a drop in the bucket is better than nothing at all. And while Oprah is not going to solve all of your issues, it is a start for all those girls that would otherwise be without. So now I would like to read the school that you started and all the millions you gave to help "your own". And let's be very honest, South Africans do not help their own or else we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we? The help is either corrupted by greed, hate, bigotry and the vast number of those that fall through the cracks are without and sadly that is by far the indigeneous native blacks that are still without, still struggling, and everything else. Now if I am reading you wrong, correct me, but it seems to read like you are blaming all of these native blacks poverty on themselves, which honestly prompted me to respond to you in the first place. Instead of focusing on the horrible system of white supremacy that placed them in the position to begin with, you paint a grossly savage picture.

  Otherwise, let's just agree to disagree on a few subjects. Overall I understand that you love your country and you want healing to take place, I think your country is beautiful as well and I would like to see all those people there getting along without such racial discord. Peace.
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  Aliboy

  Loubelle,

  Settler states have always been esatblished on the 'need and greed' of a people. Because stability on a piece of land that a people can call their own is the basis for nationhood, culture and religion, in essence their humanity; once it is lost, the striving for land and the atttempt to recover it becomes a recurring theme in their drama of human endurance and survival. Therefore, the Land Question is as old as people and nations.

  Yes, in the Americas the European settlers have been there so long that they no longer consider themselves settlers. They either brought the indigenous population under contol or literally destroyed them as in the case of the almost total desrtruction of the native population of Australia and the total destruction of the black population in Tasmania. Consequently, in these lands where a noticeable prescence of the indigenous population is still present; they are viewed as intruders.

  That the Blacks (Africans) were 'intruders' in the european settler state of apartheid south africa (and perhaps, still are in the minds of some) has been a recurrent theme in the posts of those who take issue with the unravelling of post apartheid south africa. In the transition from being a european settler state to an indigenous african state, there will be 'birth pangs'; difficulties. The average John and Jane that benefited fom the old order (apartheid) will suffer discomfiture and sometimes loss of prviledges. I'm sure this explains the exodus of mainly white south africans to their european homelands of origin, and elsewhere that european nation states control. Not all whites will leave because some love the land and its peoples, and others have nowhere else to go. The established rich and wealthy elites will stay put until, if it occurs, they have to leave for their physical safety.

  Loubelle, I don't view you as 'Coloured'. You are a child of Africa, an African woman with blood ties to the land. Learn to love the land and its peoples from that perspective and you will know yourself.

  Respect and Peace
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  Layla33

  When I think of South Africa, I think about India when Ghandi fought against colonization and white supremacist rule. I think of Hong Kong and Asia when Europeans went in and tried to rule it. I just feel very strongly that the white supremacist rule on the indigenous people of other countries always always fails. And I applaud when the native people fight for their rights and empowerment. The same thing is going on in South Africa, they are fighting to find themselves, of course there will be this fall out right now, it is the "conflict theory" seen outright and it has happened everywhere where such an infrustracture and "system" was in place.

  I don't believe Indians need to be rule by the white settlers. I don't think Asians need to be ruled by the white settlers, I don't believe Hispanics needs to be ruled by the white settlers. This is those people's lands, and marginalizing them and overtaking them for some twisted ideology to rule the world will not work. I feel the same way for South Africans and even Native Americans, although most of them has been killed off - which is heartbreaking in itself.

  I truly hope I see the day when people can get beyond the color/race/class construct and learn to enjoy each other in peace. No thinking of trying to tell people who they are, what they think and the most inhuman thing, trying to have a say in someone's self-identification or worth.

  Maybe I am dreaming...
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  LouBelle

  Layla - You said I hadn't mentioned anything about government - I believe in my first post I did refer to the government under Mbeki and the government potentially being under Zuma *shrug*. We do help our own, but it's not splashed all over international news, simply because non of us are Oprahs'. I really do think you are misreading a lot of what I've posted here - because you keep saying I'm attacking the blacks. I do keep the bigger picture in mind, I know we have a lot of healing to do as a nation but that we should let the racial issue thing go, whites being bitter about blacks having an opportunity for the first time in there lives and visa versa - I want my country to succeed - but it seems you keep coming to your own conclusions - we'll just keep going round and round in circles.

  you wrote like your experiences were the only valid explanations and thoughts on what is going on

  You've come to the conclusion that is how I was writing - as I've expressed they are my opinions. Of course the are not the only valid and explanations or thoughts about what is going on and would be madness to even think that.

  And I agree with your last post - I also hope for that day for my own country.
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  LouBelle

  Aliboy - you put that down well - thanks. You're right I'm a child of Africa and I really do love this place! We are going through "birth pangs" - I guess those of us that want it to work don't understand why others seem to fight against it. (no matter their colour)