New baptismal questions...........................What is the real meaning?

by RULES & REGULATIONS 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  RULES & REGULATIONS

  1. On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  2. Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  Question # 2 had to be drawn up by a Lawyer. I understand that by dedication and baptism you will be identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and that you agree with all their beliefs. What I don't understand is the words,''in association with God's spirit-directed organization?''

  Can someone explain how and why the WTS use the word ''association'' in the baptismal question? How are you an ''associate''?
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  Gopher

  I found something here: http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/do-jehovahs-witnesses-claim-that-they.html

  It quoted the April 1997 "Our Kingdom Ministry" (the internal monthly newsletter given to all JW publishers for use at midweek meetings) --

  In regards to that second baptism question, their comment was: Hence, it is important that he realize he cannot serve God without actively associating with the true Christian congregation.

  So the "in association" clause means you can't be a Jehovah's Witness and have meetings or go in the ministry independent from the central organization.
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  lrkr

  The second question gives your consent to be disciplined by the org. Stand trial before a JC, be DF'd etc.
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  momzcrazy

  You are agreeing to only associate spiritually with the JW's and if you don't they can kick you out.

  momz
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  VoidEater

  Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  On the face of it:

  1) You are making the choice - whatever happens, it's your fault - don't blame the organization or it's teachings if we hurt you later, like shunning you ro molesting your children (ok, I've worded this rather rudely!)

  2) You will identify yourself and be identified in the world as a JW - if that comes back to bite you, it's your own lookout - and we can "out" you to anyone you have not divulged yourself to - you belong to us

  3) You will associate with the WTS - otherwise we can kick you out - and with any other corporation, organization, society, or knitting circle we identify as "God's spirit-directed organization" in the future

  4) You acknolwedge that the WTS is led by God, and that it's the only organization led by God - follow it or die, ha ha ha ha ha ha!

  I think the real meaning is "we own you by your choice, you have to do whatever we see and don't complain". Or, as another poster in another context said, "Shut up and take it".
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  Cynisister

  My baptism was 48 years ago, and I did not answer this revised question (vow.) Can I legally claim not to be a real "associate" since I never agreed to such a thing??
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  freydi

  What just fractures me is what they've done to those questions. The 2nd one in particular. Goodbye holy spirit. Goodbye Jesus.
  
  *** w73 5/1 280 Baptizing Follows Discipling ***
  
  If you feel the same about serving Jehovah God and taking Christs yoke upon you, we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of candidates for baptism:
  
  (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
  
  (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
  
  And the questions for baptism in 1985 were as follows:
  
  *** w85 6/1 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***
  
  (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  
  (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovahs Witnesses in association with Gods spirit-directed organization?
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  VoidEater

  Recently my dad was discussing this with an elder. The elder was weirded out that my dad, a baptized witness, commented that he hadn't dedicated himself to an organization. "But what about your baptism vows?" Well, dad was baptized in 1947. The "vows" were rather different then.