The Problem with Atheism by Sam Harris (page 6)

BurnTheShips

The rights of parents should be protected.

I do not advocate violence. All rights are relative. I have freedom of speech but cannot scream fire in a theater.

When the violent ideologies manifest-open fire.

Burn

serotonin_wraith

BTS,

I thought you'd come quite far too - are you having a bad day?

If I'm shown to be wrong, I will eat my humble pie. I'm very capable of doing so. If I feel my position is wrong, I cannot be dishonest with myself.

I just have the bother now of searching back over past posts to see what I put.

Childhood indoctrination too: who decides what's right? JWs teaching their kids all about their beliefs looks bad to me, but it's 'their right' to mentally abuse their children? Of course not.

With 'faith' you can't decide which religion is okay to teach and which isn't. They all require 'faith' (or in layman's terms- you don't need any reason to know it's true, so shut up?)

VoidEater

My children will be educated by me in the manner I choose until they are of age to choose for them selves.

Warning: high control group. Don't let your children develop their own thoughts, now, y'hear?

VoidEater

You will shut up and take it.

So nice it deserves repeating.

BurnTheShips

Childhood indoctrination too: who decides what's right? JWs teaching their kids all about their beliefs looks bad to me

I was raised JW. My parents were wrong. I was not abused in any way. They did their best with what they believed was right and best. With the bad of the JW education, there was also some good. JWs have the right to raise their children JW, just as I have the right not to.

Burn

serotonin_wraith

I was raised JW. My parents were wrong. I was not abused in any way. They did their best with what they believed was right and best. With the bad of the JW education, there was also some good. JWs have the right to raise their children JW, just as I have the right not to.

How can you think it's okay to raise a kid to believe in your religion if you've been raised a JW? We of all people know what it's like to be made to believe something that was forced on us. You were mentally abused. You were made to believe that evolution was false, that there was an evil invisible being roaming the Earth with his minions, that God was going to wipe out all your school friends plus almost everyone else on Earth; you were made to believe in all sorts of crazy shit.

They did their best, but it didn't make it right. I'm sure you'll be doing your best with your kids too, you think you have it right now when it comes to God. The thing is, nobody knows for a fact which religion, if any, is the right one. So you're going to be just as closed minded and sure of your beliefs as your parents were about theirs.

Before you ask, although I've told you already I'll repeat it: No, I will not make my child 'believe in no god'. That's my own opinion, and my children can come to their own conclusions. I'm not them, and neither are you your own children. They are individuals, and they do have the right to form their own opinions about the cosmos and the meaning of life. Being young doesn't matter. It's at that young age that minds can be influenced, and it's at this time we have to be careful about what we teach them about what is true or not.

DanTheMan

I do not advocate violence.

And I think that this is where Sam makes an excellent point - there are shades of grey here with the level of atrociousness that various religious faiths inspire in their adherents, and, ahem, "atheists" should acknowledge this.

That said, to me, there's only a very slight difference in the underlying mentality between a middle-eastern Muslim taking up arms for Allah and an American evangelical Christian anxiously awaiting "the Final Judgement" or the "Rapture", both of these religious ideas portending some pretty wicked violence towards those of us who haven't accepted the unassailable truths of ancient stories of virgin births and blindess-curing spit-mud and the like.

If you're anxious for the day that violence is done to those who don't share your faith™, whether you're the agent of that violence or not, it's pretty whack.

B_Deserter

I don't debate with theists anymore. I don't because all the arguments are always the same, and everyone brings up the answers to those arguments over and over again, but the theist never listens, never pays attention. It just goes in one ear and out the other or degrades into insults.

B_Deserter

*sigh* alright, I'll bite. You don't have to be a believer in God to be irrational or evil. The two are mutually exclusive. The problem is that when religion gets violent, it's done in the name of that religion. Not all world conflict is motivated by religion, and just because religious people start wars doesn't mean it's the religion's fault. Likewise, just because an atheist does some bad things doesn't mean that his lack of belief was to blame. You can be an atheist and still be an irrational person.

I agree wholeheartedly with Harris. Did southern non-racists have meetup groups and societies and conventions when racism was the prevalent ideology? No. They just didn't take part in the killing, and even marched during the Civil Rights Movement. Why is it that Christians can write countless books, make countless videos, and even broadcast their beliefs on radio and television 24 hours a day, yet when someone writes a book about the reasons he doesn't believe in God, the Christians cry "persecution!"?

I don't like to call myself an atheist and I don't identify myself as such. I am not defined by what I don't believe. It is also an inadequate term to cover my belief system. I don't believe in anything supernatural. I'm open to the possibility, but I put all supernatural claims on an equal level. So to me, Jehovah is just as likely as Santa Claus. I also don't believe this nonsense with pseudo-medicine "cures," nor do I believe in Feng Shui. Atheism doesn't BEGIN to cover it!

BurnTheShips

We of all people know what it's like to be made to believe something that was forced on us. You were mentally abused.

I was not mentally abused. And a good deal more is forced on you than religious education. You just don't see it, like the bars of a cage you grew up in that your eyes pass over. Quite tame and domesticated we are.

The Problem with Atheism by Sam Harris

Share this