You just can't reach some people-they just don't get it!

by dawg 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  dawg

  Hey guys, album is going great so far... I hope we can finish it in 2008, around May or June.

  Anyway, I just had a thought which made me stop in for a while.

  I was discussing something with a friend the other day, I hadn't even started speaking nor had I brought up the core of my point before he started screaming like some wild manaic; he started making up "straw man" arguments one after the other ad infinum, yelling like a banshee and accusing me of all sorts of thoughts that I don't believe... it was really bazarre. I've know him for about a year, we've never had words, and I really didn't expect him to act in such a way. I told him that since he couldn't control his emotions, the conversation was over, we'll have to continue it by e-mail. I figured that was a way I could calm him down and get him to see that he was really arguing with himself. All to no avail.

  What was so puzzling, was that he couldn't see that he was actually agreeing with me for the most part. It was like talking to Rush Limbaugh, who wouldn't have a show if not for the straw man argument. Friend still has no idea what my point was, he's out in space arguing right now with the imaginary guy he's created in his mind whom he thinks is me. Anyway, it got me thinking.

  My roomate from College used to get on my ass about my JW family, he'd always ask me "damn dude, what if they're just too damn stupid to apply logic, what if they just don't get it?" I used to brush that comment off thinking that my family were smart enough to get the point. But, I've been out of College for 7 years now, I've talked to many people about many things.. and you know what? Some MF'ers just don't have the ability for logic and reason.

  Now, I'm not saying that all of us should always agree, what i'm saying is that even when we do we shouldn't walk off thinking the other person is a complete moron, or that thery've broken the rules of of a logical debate. But in fact that sometimes happens, here's the point, maybe roomate was right, maybe some people just aren't that smart.

  Quick JW example, I give a well thought out point to my Dad, in writing.... he calls me a fornicator... While it may be true, fornication is one of my favorite things to do, the fact that I'm a fornicator or not has nothing to do with the information I've sent him...as a matter of fact, my fornicating is an attack on my character and a different argument all together. So, he thinks this defends his views, the fact that I'm a fornicator proves the JWs right in some way, he goes stright on the attack of me, while never addressing my well researched argument, and then after that he'll tell me he's proven his point and proven me wrong.... infurating.

  Do you guys see what I'm saying? Isn't it infurating and how do you deal with it?
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  wha happened?

  Oh completely. I don't discuss things anymore with my active JW friends because they start to pull excuses and ridiculous reasoning out of the air. Sometimes I just stare in disbelief because they make things up on the spot and are totally content with themselves. I remember this situation where an elder got caught stealing tools from his job and selling them to brothers. He was arrested and awaiting trial. I laughed it off because I never liked the elder and now he's on hot water. During the entire time he was awaiting trial I heard every excuse in the book from different JW's. "Maybe he had permission to take the tools and his supervisor changed his mind, Maybe making money on the side is why he was arrested" etc etc. Oh and if I refuted those arguments (among many others), the response was always among the lines of well Let's see if they have any facts in trial, they're probably lying. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUgh! BTW the elder plea bargained thus admitting guilt and was DF'd. To which the brothers stated: "Plea bargaining is not an admission of guilt, but merely an unfortunate consequence in dealing with the corrupt court system in this world." UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUgh!
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  worldtraveller

  Been dealing with that shit for about 5 years now. I would call him on the fornicator word. To me that is just another swear word that witnesses should avoid. I would demand an apology and ask when swearing like an idiot was now allowed. I would shun him 'till I got a retraction. I don't give a damn who is in front of me-family or not-disrespect gets my boot up someones ass every time. I can be a dick today anyway 'cause it's my birthday!!!!
• 

  poppers

  Happy birthday worldtraveller.
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  FairMind

  Totally understand and agree. My wife's reaction to any critical thought regarding the WTS is to accuse me of not believing in God and doomed to destruction. Until something happens to a person that opens their eyes to the truth about the organization they seem to stay insulated against common sense.
• 

  Cold Creek Swimmer

  Dawg,

  I went through the same thing with my dad before he died. He tried to pin me down as to what was my issue with JW's. I only spoke about things from the FDS. When he had no answer, he called me a fornicator and that was why I was an apostate. Funny thing is, I've been married for 20 years. With no way to deal with facts, their only response is to attack the messenger.

  CCS
• 

  willyloman

  In my experience, there are a lot of people on the planet who are wired differently than the majority. They just don't "get' what is so obvious to "normal" people. Whether this is stupidity or conditioning, I can't say. But there it is. Logic and reason are wasted on such people. They thrive, not on harmony, but on contention and acrimony. They are instinctively negative about everything. They have created a toxic environment in which to live and they seek to infect everyone else with this toxic substance.

  I learned a long time ago that you can get along very well without toxic people in your life. I'd go so far as to say that part of growing up and becoming an adult is developing the ability to spot toxicity and the courage to walk away from it and keep it out of your life.

  Toxicity and its close relative, negativity, are not unique to JWs. But there could be a good argument that such people are drawn to the dub religion, with its emphasis on the negative, the disdain for personal responsibility, and the conviction that this is a toxic world doomed to failure.
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  Anti-Christ

  I have notice this reaction many times and yes sometimes I ask myself if the person is actually smart enough to understand but I think it has to do mostly with fear. In there mind it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be wrong so the problem must be with the person who is delivering the information. My dad totally reacted the same way when I gave him some information and ask him some questions that he had a hard time answering so what did he do he started to attack me. He has not called me since. They just don't WANT to get it.
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  OUTLAW

  Dawg..Your missing the point!..........Jehovah`s Witness`s are`nt wrong..A Jehovah`s Witness is never wrong.........If a Jehovah`s Witness were to be wrong about one thing..He/She may be wrong about alot of things............That Can`t Happen!!..Their world would fall apart!..............No matter what..A Jehovah`s Witness is always Right!..The WBT$ says so!.........................OUTLAW
• 

  jgnat

  Have you heard the joke about the psychiatrist and the mental patient?

  Patient : "Doc, I have visual hallucinations."
  Psychiatrist : "What do you see?"
  Patient : "I have been seeing medical people around me, such as doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, and even patients too."
  Psychiatrist : "You are not hallucinating. You are in a mental hospital."
  Patient : "Oh, my God! I have auditory hallucinations, too. A doctor just told me that I am in a mental hospital!"

  http://www.holisticmasters.com/medicaljokes.htm

  In a psychiatrist's waiting room two patients are having a conversation. One says to the other, "Why are you here?"
  The second answers, "I'm Napoleon, so the doctor told me to come here."
  The first is curious and asks, "How do you know that you're Napoleon?"
  The second responds, "God told me I was."
  At this point, a patient on the other side of the room shouts, "NO I DIDN'T!"

  http://www.workjoke.com/projoke30.htm

  Perhaps you've heard of the man who thought he was dead? In reality he was very much alive. His delusion became such a problem that his family finally paid for him to see a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist spent many laborious sessions trying to convince the man he was still alive. Nothing seemed to work. Finally the doctor tried one last approach. He took out his medical books and proceeded to show the patient that dead men don't bleed. After hours of tedious study, the patient seemed convinced that dead men don't bleed.
  - "Do you now agree that dead men don't bleed?" the doctor asked.
  - "Yes, I do," the patient replied.
  - "Very well, then," the doctor said.
  He took out a pin and pricked the patient's finger. Out came a trickle of blood. The doctor asked,
  - "What does that tell you?"
  - "Oh my goodness!" the patient exclaimed as he stared incredulously at his finger ... "Dead men do bleed!!"

  http://humour.webwweb.com/Psychiatrist,Jokes,39,0.html

  I'm not convinced that people who don't "get it" right away are stupid or illogical. People are much more complex than computers. I firmly believe you must understand your audience before you give them your message. What is their trigger, the hold, that keeps them trapped in the society? Speak to that trigger and let them mull about it for a while. There will come a day when they will come back for more information.