Did Jesus Teach Parents Should be Honored?

JosephAlward

Matthew says that Jesus tells his disciples to "Honor your father and mother" (Matt 19:19), but Luke thinks that Jesus requires his followers to hate their parents, "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother...cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14.26)

Couldn't God find a way for one to be a disciple of Jesus without having to hate one's parents? Certainly, he could. Thus, Luke must have been mistaken about what Jesus said, and the Bible is once again in error.

When a disciple begs for permission to bury his father, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father," Jesus told him to let him rot: "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." (Matthew 8:21-22)

Jesus was in such a hurry that he wouldn't let his disciples at least make sure his father wasn't eaten by dogs? How likely is this? Jesus must have known that the end wasn't coming for another two thousand years, so why couldn't he have given his disciple a little time off to "honor" his father?

Now, really...who can imagine that Jesus really said this? Isn't it more likely--by far--that Matthew was wrong about what Jesus said? If so, then the Bible is once again in error. If you can't trust it here, perhaps it can't be trusted anywhere.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

LittleToe

Hi Joseph, nice to see that you are still stirring it.
I have no cause to pursue this thread, but I will cast in my 2p and run.
Dredging up the explanations that I heard on these ones...

"Hate" in this context may refer to "love less", just as Jacob loved Leah less than Rachael, yet still had children by her.
Greek word - "miseo"
Strongs# - "3404"

"Bury my father" in a time when burials were the same day, was unlikely the intention of the guy, as he wouldn't likely have been there, but rather would have got it over and done with. He was more likely waiting for his father to "pop his clogs", hence missing the short opportunity left to be with Jesus on earth.
Tobit 4:3 has a similar situation.

I doubt that you don't already know of these explanations.
You are merely throwing up a cloud of dust that mires your better arguments on other subjects.

Bye...whooosh...

LT

gotcha

it's off the topic but i would just like to ask if you're an xjw? an x christian or what? why the interest with bible errors? still affiliated with any religion whatsoever...was just curious...

SixofNine

I think it would EXTREMELY odd for anyone who had ever been a JW not to be interested in Bible errors.

JosephAlward

I've never been a JW or a Christian and have never been affiliated with anything even remotely like a religion or spiritual organization. I write about errancy because I think mindless beliefs are a threat to humankind's existence.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

hillary_step

Joseph,

Interesting to see that the zealous evangelistic spirit lives within all manner of belief systems!

HS

JosephAlward

Having opinions doesn't qualify as a "belief system," I think. If you believe that I am working with a belief system, then you must likewise believe that every human on the planet is also. I think what you're speaking of is that which is associated with the acceptance of life-changing, or life-governing teachings which are unsupported by evidence. Belief that one is a god, or a prophet, or anointed, and the basing of one's life on that belief, is an example of a belief system. Belief that many of the stories in the Bible are not true doesn't qualify as a "system" in the sense most people accept.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Julie

Joseph,

You make an interesting point that I feel applies to a lot of the New Testament. Contradictions. While the OT is a white knuckle roller-coaster ride of blood and guts, the NT is stepping all over itself. Hard to believe there are people who would fight to the death over their conviction this is the word of God. I think my twelve year old could write a more consistent tale(though it would likely include fairy princesses saving the world, on unicorns).

Regards,
Julie

JanH

LT,

"Hate" in this context may refer to "love less"

No it may not. Nobody says "i hate you" and mean "I love you less [than whom?]". This is a Watchtower excuse, typically taken from some fundie excusogeters.

The text in Matthew is very plain and simple to understand. It means what it says. That believers have to find excuses to ignore the words of their alleged Lord says much about their priorities.

Can you find a single example in Koine Greek where miseo, used as it is here, demonstrably means "love less" and not hate/dislike? Didn't think so.

- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

hillary_step

Hello Joseph,

Actually, I was paying homage to the persistent fervor with which you present your many ‘error’ cases against the NT. It just seems to me, perhaps mistakenly, that you are engaged in a soul-saving, or at least saving humanity from ‘mindless beliefs’, with just about the same vigor that evangelical Christians do, which rather gives me the wobbles!

If you believe that I am working with a belief system, then you must likewise believe that every human on the planet is also.

As to belief, ‘something believed or accepted as true’, yes, I would surmise that every human on this planet does indeed have a personal belief system; established on a host of information and experience that is unique to that individual. This is the argument advanced by Mircea Eliade in his book ‘The Sacred And The Profane’, rather compelling stuff. Place a man alone for long enough and he will opinionate and the ritualizes everything into systems of belief. Seems to be part of our nature.

I was a JW for over 30 years Joseph and my experience is that most JW’s are not terribly interested in the Bible! Most would be hard put to defend the WTS teachings outside of their conditioned responses even when at the peak of their ‘spirituality’. Many people on this Board have worked out their own personal philosophies and are moving on, except of course for Larsboy who as you have seen is always ready for a fundamentalist tussle!

As to what Jesus meant by these statements, perhaps none of us know for sure. Given the scenario that there does not seem to be much evidence that he or his followers practiced what he preached in this regard, or that their was not an explosion of rabbinical outrage among his listeners at his public contradiction of Exodus 20:12, there may be more to this than meets the eye.

Kindest regards - HS

Did Jesus Teach Parents Should be Honored?

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