Justification of Violent Films

inkling

The recent post about "The Passion of the Christ" has gotten me thinking about violence in film in general, and I would very much like a few perspectives on something... Last year, after finally shedding the reflexive guilt that was instilled in me (by my WT steeping) towards violent stories, I finally saw a few iconic films, including a few from Quentin Tarantino. (Including Reservoir Dogs) Now Tarantino is know for his unflinching depiction of stylized violence. (exactly the sort of thing that is specifically condemned by the WT) Some film makers have this knack for making cruelty, death, and violence a odd spectacle of dark beauty. A remarkable scene from "Enduring Love" comes to mind... (the scene in his green kitchen, for those who have seen the movie.) Now some of these types of movies I am simply repulsed by, and so they are meaningless to me. On the other hand, take a film like Reservoir Dogs... Despite the fact that a few scenes were very hard to watch, I LIKED the movie. I'm not even sure WHY I liked the movie, and when I admit this to myself, I actually feel a bit guilty for enjoying it. So, my question is: What do you feel is a valid justification for not just realistic violence, but stylized violence in film or television? Violence that is etched across the screen like an achingly beautiful painting. Violence that, if encountered in the harsh light of real life would simply make a person sick and scared and sad. How does Quentin Tarantino, at the end of the day, feel good about what he does for a living? How do his Ilk, and people who enjoy his work (including me, on occasion) sleep at night? [inkling]

Twitch

So, my question is: What do you feel is a valid justification for not just realistic violence, but stylized violence in film or television?

Sex and violence. Supply and demand. Real or not, it sells and if it looks good, it sells better. Not a justification, just an observation.

How does Quentin Tarantino, at the end of the day, feel good about
what he does for a living? How do his Ilk, and people who enjoy his work (including me, on occasion) sleep at night?

I don't know how Quentin feels about his work or how he sleeps, perhaps a question for him to answer,....:)

I don't know how you sleep at night but I like his stories and his style and I sleep fine. The stuff that happens for real does bother me somewhat but I don't lose sleep over it.

Gregor

I have walked out of movies that made cruel violence the centerpiece of the "entertainment". But I have enjoyed films with violence that put it into the context of an entertaining yarn with realistic characters. "The Wild Bunch" was a terrific western.

Forscher

How do his Ilk, and people who enjoy his work (including me, on occasion) sleep at night?

The answer is that they think they are advancing artistic expression inkling. The modern definition of art these days is to "push the boundaries" of artistic expression. Given the cynical world view of those who teach "artists" on our modern campuses, I don't think I need to tell you which direction they teach their students the boundaries should be pushed. I noted the comment about garbage selling, that is the prevailing view. But how do those folks explain the fact that the motion picture industry turned in a record year only because the prices of tickets at the theaters were raised? The reality was that sales were flat, or even a little less. None of the critically acclaimed movies even managed to break even here in the US, the standard for the success of a movie.

One thing which amazed me in college was the way liberal professors missed the obvious. My psychology professor held the strong opinion that violence in the movies do not in anyway have an effect on the behavior of those who view it. I well remember the argument she had with a student over that one. Then she went right into the lesson about the research which the anti-spanking lobby uses to justify their stance that spanking should be banned. I am sure the college folks around here can remember that one. The researchers showed groups children two movies, one of a man ignoring a punching dummy in a room, the other showing the same man violently punching the same dummy. The children were then observed playing together. Those children who'd viewed the violent movie acted more violently towards their fellows than those who'd seen the benign movie. The conclusion. Spanking a child will make it more violent.

The problem with said conclusion in my mind is that the effects of spanking children were not what was actually measured (that would be unethical). What was really measured was the emotional effects of watching a violent movie on the actions of children. The other conclusion was inferred from the observations rather than actually tested by them. Yet our professor stuck by her opinion that the test didn't really support a conclusion that watching violent films can cause one to act violently. The best we dumb hicks could figure out about her was that the professor just wouldn't consider anything which ran counter to her idealogical views. Sadly, she was the exception rather than the rule in college.

And then folks wonder why violence is such a problem in our society.

Forscher

frankiespeakin

For,

The answer is that they think they are advancing artistic expression inkling. The modern definition of art these days is to "push the boundaries" of artistic expression

Yes, artist need to put off shackles imposed by culture, and state. Just think how borring life would be if they all remained shackled that way. Art is a human in born trait driven no doubt but the other human trait to ask questions and look for answers, and explore the world deeper and deeper. Heck if we didn't do this we would never have invented fire and the wheel(true artist the hunter/gatherers who discovered these things).

I say the future existance of our species rests on those who break free of regemented thinking and give themselve more room by dropping boundaries. I'm tired of all this government censorship, it hurts our species.

SirNose586

Tarantino just makes quotable stuff. Everything from Pulp Fiction you can quote. Nearly every line.

He's just a great filmmaker. I remember the first time I saw Pulp Fiction. I was disturbed at what those characters did to each other, and to innocent bystanders.

But then I remembered, hey, it's just a movie. And a damn good one at that.

Call me sick or whatever you like. When violence is well written.....how can you say no?

That might just be the Sam Adams talking but whatever. I like Pulp Fiction.

Satanus

Viewing violence makes people that like seeing it on tv feel good. For myself, seeing some kinds of violence makes me feel victorious. Martial arts type of violence, for instance. Other kinds, like where women and kids suffer, i can't watch. From what i heard/read about the passion of christ movie, it glorified extreme suffering. I can understand how that would turn christians on. However, it's not the kind of violence that i like seeing.

S

Forscher

Yes, artist need to put off shackles imposed by culture, and state. Just think how borring life would be if they all remained shackled that way. Art is a human in born trait driven no doubt but the other human trait to ask questions and look for answers, and explore the world deeper and deeper. Heck if we didn't do this we would never have invented fire and the wheel(true artist the hunter/gatherers who discovered these things).

I would respectfully ask how promoting the lowest depravity in human behavior accomplishes the aims you claim to look towards?

I say the future existance of our species rests on those who break free of regemented thinking and give themselve more room by dropping boundaries. I'm tired of all this government censorship, it hurts our species.

I might agree with your contention if said persons actually were breaking free from "regimented thinking." However, they aren't. They are conforming to and promoting a new regimented way of thinking founded in the concept that man is nothing more than just another animal and the precept that the "philosophy of a cur dog," as Eugene Burdick or Harvey Wheeler put it in their novel Fail Safe in 1962, is liberating and enlightened.

Forscher

It is more like watching violence portrayed is thrilling, a subtle difference Satanus, but a difference all the same.

Like you, I often enjoy a technically good MA portrayal, largely out of appreciation for the expertise of the Choreographers involved in putting it together. That is because of my life-long interest in and past training in the martial arts. The Passion of Christ had quite a different effect on me. about the only people it could "turn on" are sadists who get-off on the graphic display of torture. We all know it was modeled on the old German passion plays and what they were all about. The effect it had on me was a new appreciation of what the Romans did to their victims of that especially humiliating and agonizing form of execution, and what Jesus went through in his last hours. Oh, I knew the gory details transmitted to use by history about crucification, but nothing has quite the impact of seeing it so graphically depicted. And that despite the minor differences between the depiction and the real practice.

The impact was such, that nobody said a word or moved from there seats for a few minutes after the film ended in the theater I attended. If you ever really want a new appreciation of the brutality inherent in public execution methods predating our modern era, I highly recommend watching it. but be warned, it is not easy to watch!

Forscher

hillbilly

I dont mind realistic violence or whatever in context. The issue for me is : Do I really need to see the places the "context" comes from?

~Hill

Justification of Violent Films

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