Help needed answering someone on another forum.

by veen 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • veen
    veen

    I've been having a debate with some guys, non jw's, on a different forum. How would you reply to this?

    Most of the things mentioned in Revelation are perfectly believable and likely to happen, like asteroid/meteor impacts, wars, famine (food insecurity is going to be a major problem as the world's population increases). The mark of the beast (RFID chips) is very likely to happen. One world government and one world religion is very likely to happen. The Euphrates drying up (Biblical prophecy) is possible, Turkey constructed a super-dam across it in the early 90's. These things sound like fantasy but in the political climate that the world is moving towards, are very much possible. We know all about a new world order and a single world government because we've been brought up in a highly technological society where instant communications are possible, where global/transnational political insitutions exist, where English is the dominant language and where military power can be projected internationally at ease. How would somebody writing Revelation back in ancient times have any understanding of those issues, which are necessary pre-conditions for fulfilling a biblical prophecy such as an antichrist figure forming a single global regime? Perhaps Dean could enlighten us. I find that the dogmatic atheists on this board are just as fixed in their views as the religious people out there, whereas the handful of Christians on this board generally only bring it up if somebody else raises it first (usually by taking a pot shot). For some reason there is a trend at the moment to bring up Christianity in debates as if it's the cause of all the worlds problems, and it is cool to attack Christianity and people's personal faith, even though the Christian faith is in decline in our country.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    That was some good stuff John was smokin'!

  • *summer*
    *summer*
    That was some good stuff John was smokin'!

    LOL!!!

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    Depends on where you want to go with this...

    So here is my topicless response.

    Most of the things mentioned in Revelation are perfectly believable and likely to happen,

    If it's divine intervention, then it doesn't really nead to be likely does it?

    If it's not miraculous then it isn't a miracle...

    But since he's making the claim:

    like asteroid/meteor impacts,

    I assume he's talking about Revelation 8:10-11

    Actually it says "star" so to replace that with asteroid/meteor is completely arbitrary.

    Also, he ignored the REST of the account. What about it turning the water into wormwood? That's a bit less likely.

    wars,

    The only wars I know of that were mentioned in Revelation are wars between God and Satan. And they were using swords. (Coming from their mouths?)

    It's pretty unlikely that any modern war is going to involve swords.

    (Revelation 2:16) 16 Therefore repent.
    If you do not, I am coming to you quickly,
    and I will war with them
    with the long sword of my mouth.

    I also seem to recall those wars involved some magical armored man-horse-locust-scorpian-woman-lion things with crowns.... what about them?

    famine (food insecurity is going to be a major problem as the world's population increases).

    I doupt it.

    At the moment we have an excess of food. The problem, if any, will not be due to a lack of food production, but due to difficulty distributing it.

    The mark of the beast (RFID chips) is very likely to happen.

    RFID chips?

    An RFID CHIP is an object that can be applied to or incorporated into a product, animal, or person for the purpose of identification using radiowaves.

    (Revelation 13:16-18) 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    I don't see how RFID chips match the description any more than credit cards, dollar bills, checkbooks, or just plain old denariua.

    I will also add that having everyone implanted with an RFID tag that emits the SAME signal (666) would be totally useless. It would have to be more complex, like your name, ssn, birthdate, bank account number...

    One world government and one world religion is very likely to happen.

    What?

    That is totally unrealistic!

    The Euphrates drying up (Biblical prophecy) is possible,

    The opposite is much more likely.

    With global warming melting the ice caps the opposite is much more likely.

    Turkey constructed a super-dam across it in the early 90's.

    So?

    These things sound like fantasy but in the political climate that the world is moving towards, are very much possible.

    Actually none of it sounded like fantasy. It's just speculation.

    We know all about a new world order and a single world government because we've been brought up in a highly technological society where instant communications are possible, where global/transnational political insitutions exist, where English is the dominant language and where military power can be projected internationally at ease.

    Agreed, it's possible.

    How would somebody writing Revelation back in ancient times have any understanding of those issues, which are necessary pre-conditions for fulfilling a biblical prophecy such as an antichrist figure forming a single global regime?

    Because the imagination is not a new thing.

    A single world government is not a difficult thing to imagine. It has been the subject of fiction for quite a while. Long before Revelation.

    I could easily say: "How would somebody writing Sci-Fi in modern times have any understanding of warp-drive? Or know that it would be possible to connect two minds electronically to communicate by thought? Or imagine that it would be possible to communicate across the galaxy without the time lag? Or any of these issues which are necessary pre-conditions for a Borg figure forming a single universal regime?"

    We are pretty good at imagining things before they are possible. The fact that the inebriated ramblings of a 2000 year dead REALLY old prisoner are not entirely impossible is hardly miraculous.

    Perhaps Dean could enlighten us.

    Does Dean == Veen?

    I find that the dogmatic atheists on this board are just as fixed in their views as the religious people out there,

    I find it funny when religious people insult us by saying that we are similar to them...

    "You jerk! You're almost as annoying as I am!"

    whereas the handful of Christians on this board generally only bring it up if somebody else raises it first (usually by taking a pot shot).

    I'm not familar with the board in question. But I'm going to take a wild guess and say that he probably just doesn't NOTICE when they bring it up. He's used to people who agree with him, so his brain doesn't make note of it.

    It's also not important. We live in a country where Christianity is dominant. Obviously they would like to keep the status-quo.

    Atheists are the minority so obviously we would want to change the status-quo.

    Kind of like the white man telling the black slaves to be less vocal. The black man wanted a change and the white man didn't... guess who instigated more arguments!

    For some reason there is a trend at the moment to bring up Christianity in debates as if it's the cause of all the worlds problems,

    Not just Christianity, Religion in general.

    But since christianity is more popluar here, we will talk about it more. I'm also opposed to all the other religions, but it would be kind of pointless for me to start talking about how dumb it is to believe in Zeus, when the majority of my audience doesn't believe in Zeus.

    and it is cool to attack Christianity and people's personal faith,

    Get over it.

    If your beliefs are logical then you have nothing to worry about. If your beliefs are not logical then don't be surprised when you have difficulty defending them.

    If you want your beliefs to be respected, they must be respectable.

    even though the Christian faith is in decline in our country.

    YAY!

    Lore - W.W.S.D?

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    Christianity is not the root of all the problems, but it's pretty close. I think Islam is higher along with (big) oil.

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