Why God permits wickedness..the argument and counter logic

by wherehasmyhairgone 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wherehasmyhairgone
    wherehasmyhairgone

    When I was a pioneer I used to get the comment a lot, as i am sure most here have.

    My stock answer was the analogy...

    WT 2002 10/1 page 7 as an example

    Imagine a father allowing his child to go thru a painful operation in-order to get better...hence why god permits suffering. Anyway I used to trot this out without any counter arguments.

    Even when I left, it still seemed a reasonable explanations, then something clicked. This analogy is absolutely terrible ...reasons

    First we set up the story as the child being mankind and the father being God, this is where the problem lies.

    The father in the story is clearly not able to heal his child himself and permits his child to go to a doctor that is able to perform a operation to heal the child.

    Well firstly God is able to heal his 'child' (mankind) if he wanted to.

    Secondly the doctor is able to perform an operations but does his best to minimize the child pain and suffering with drugs and after care, How exactly does God (father) limited his child's ( mankind ) suffering, in no way what so ever.

    So the argument that that as the WT puts its

    Just as a loving father will allow his child to undergo a painful operation if he knows it will bring lasting benefits, so Jehovah has allowed humans to experience the temporary existence of evil on earth. Yet, an eternity of blessings awaits all who seek to do God’s will

    Wrong wrong wrong. God has the ability that a father of the ill child doesn't , in fact if we retell the story with the father and child in proper character according to the way the WT describes the story goes like this.

    The Father having the ability to heal the sick child and remove the suffering immediately (with or without conditions) chooses not to and instead permits the child to go to inferring counter part to ensure a painful operations with additional pain, to teach the child a lesson about imperfect his child really is. Then tells the child that he could feel him, but wanted to experience this pain to show how lower the child is.

    If this happened in today society it amount to child abuse.

    I sincerely hope the WT continue to use the analogy and hope that it is counted time and again with how redundant this analogy is.

    Yes it was a rant, it is something that annoyed me that I used to just spout the crap that the WT issues to help its people on the doors, and the best they can come up with is this story for why God permits humans to suffer.. , Then the WT is extremely deluded, dumb, and are taking their followers as saps.

    End of rant , and getting down of my soap box

  • Clam
    Clam

    Interesting wherehasmyhairgone.

    Imagine a father allowing his child to go thru a painful operation in-order to get better...

    I always thought a better analogy would be someone dropping their dog off on the freeway 100 miles from home. If the dog managed to survive and make it home maybe. just maybe it deserved another chance.

  • wherehasmyhairgone
    wherehasmyhairgone

    Classic, i like the dog idea, bringing home the sadistic nature of such god

  • steve2
    steve2

    Why does God permit wickedness? I always thought this sort of question belonged near the top of the big, bottomless barrel labeled "Dumb & Pointless Questions".

    Surely, a more pertinent question is, Why do we humans permit wickedness? Perhaps a preliminary question is, How is wickedness defined? Well, there's the obvious wickedness such as someone using violence to take others' possessions. But, I'm astonished that for so many of the human population, wickedness includes the mere act of others disagreeing with their version of truth and others not giving their total allegiance to an earthly organization. Wicked, wicked, wicked.

    I'm inclined to think the reason we humans permit wickedness - however defined - is for the same reason we permit bad weather: When all is said and done, we actually have very, very limited influence over others' behaviour. In addition, we humans, religious or otherwise , tend to have "elastic" definitions of what constitutes wickedness. I've often thought (in jest I might add) that the mere fact that I continued to exist after my departure from the kingdom hall, was enough for my former JW associates to consider me wicked!

  • wherehasmyhairgone
    wherehasmyhairgone

    I think that is starting to fall into relative morality.

    i.e What one person thinks is immoral or wicked, isn't what another thinks is, that is certainly a good reason for why conflicts will always be part of human history.

    And when you consider that mere thoughts are considered wicked in certain cases ( immoral, or apostate ideas) and by the very nature that the wicked will be destroyed, how anyone would want to live under a theocratic government is beyond me.

    Thought crimes are punishable by death, praise is required everyday.... as Christopher hitchens said in his latest book that a if anyone want to truly know what it is like to live under a theocracy, then go live in north Korea.

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Why does God permit wickedness? Simple, he's not here to stop it. Period. There, I had my dogmatic fit:)

  • sspo
    sspo

    How can a god or father even have the heart to allow so much wickdness when he has the power to stop it.

    Is he so insecure that he has to prove a point at the expanse and suffering of others?

    .

  • 5go
    5go

    There was a thread not that long ago that brought up that in the bible God had killed thousands versus Satan killing ten after god let him do it. So that leads us to one possibility that is God is really the wicked one.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Surely, a more pertinent question is, Why do we humans permit wickedness?

    ...

    I'm inclined to think the reason we humans permit wickedness - however defined - is for the same reason we permit bad weather: When all is said and done, we actually have very, very limited influence over others' behaviour.

    That's where the "Why does Goes permit..." question comes from. He (allegedly) has UNlimited influence.

    I know why *I* don't stop a million violent acts a day -- I don't have the power. If I had it, I would.

    (We can quibble about what constitutes a violent act, but I'm sure there's an act or two we could all agree on. Rape leaps to mind)

    Good job on pointing out the hole in the "parent/doctor" analogy. Analogies are downright dangerous -- they make believe accept the most inane stuff.

    Dave

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Ah, yes...God allowed me to be raped for years on end by one of his slaves because it felt so good when it stopped (and He then blessed me with 15 years of therapy to put myself together again).

    That or He was out to lunch.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit