Gentile Times reconsidered

by confused and lost 50 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly
    The historical blunder made by Jonsson is repeated throughout the many editions of his book and concerns a dogmatic statement that John Aquila Brown in his Eventide ...did not connect Luke 21:24 with the Gentile Times. Jonsson makes this allegation because the Society in the Proclaimers of God's Kingdom on page 134 says that he did connect the two.

    Oh that old one. Anything else?

    These facts were made known to Alan F on this very forum and even he was forced to concede that an error was made.

    You mean this concession?

    Scholar: Speaking about apologies, When will Jonsson apologize for his historical blunder in connection with John Aquila Brown and the Proclaimer's book?

    Alan F: Oh please! We've been over that, and his statements were proved completely correct. The Society screwed up in its pronouncements, and Jonsson pointed them out.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/87714/20.ashx

    Alan F 'was forced to concede' that the Society had made the error. You're very naughty, 'scholar.'

    You claim that Furuli has made some errors in his published volumes then the correct and decent thing to do would be to write to Furuli and point such errors out.

    I take that suggestion on board, and as I said on the other thread, I will consider it.

    I would say that any such errors are simply typographical and due to poor proofreading.

    It goes waaay beyond that.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    I see that "Bibleman", aka JCanon (and dozens of other names) continues to take a dump in someone else's threads. He's been doing that for ten years, starting on the old H20 board. He's probably upset because he can't get any new gigs dressing up like and singing Diana Ross songs.

    Farkel

    Hi Farkel! Howzit? You know, I was thinking for writing a song and your name rhymes with non-sparkle! It's that amazing!! As far as "getting a gig" and dressing like Diana Ross. You are likely correct. But I don't have to supress my limited artistic talents as a female impressionist since I sing and place my songs on the net. Actually I do duets with myself, doing both male and female voices. Far from getting paid, but I'm "in training" so what does it matter. Anyway, I loved being an entertainer and it was always about being in the theatre more than the money and when I was getting paid to dress up like a woman, being very successful at it, I hated some aspects of it. I even took a career guidance course to see what field I'd be most "happy" or successful in and it was being an entertainer. I'm just not that anxious to please. Plus this is the age of KARAOKE. So anytime I want to go out and "ham it up" I can do that. I have a so-so Country voice so that's good enough for me.

    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/pubphoto4.JPG (my old face)

    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/leggy1.JPG (My old legs and current legs)

    http://www.ksolo.com/Lars1992 (Listen to my favorite country songs first: "Green Green Grass of Home" and "Always On My Mind" Both are the earliest songs recorded on page 3. A popular duet is "The Prayer" where I do male and female voices. Enjoy!)

    Thanks for asking, but I'm just fine. Hey, I heard your IQ is now in the low double digits! Congratulations, pal!

    JCanon

  • glenster
    glenster

    ^ I've only started coming to this board recently and I'm not familiar with something mentioned in an earlier post. What's the scam about being transformed into Christ in a dumpster?

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    ^ I've only started coming to this board recently and I'm not familiar with something mentioned in an earlier post. What's the scam about being transformed into Christ in a dumpster?

    Farkel is always accusing me of hijacking threads, but he's the only one who likes to talk about dumpsters. So please don't pursue this further in this thread. I'f you just click on my name and check my previous posts you'll find plenty of answers. Or click on farkel's name. Or search "dumpster" I guess. Thanks so much. And WELCOME TO THE BOARD!! JCanon P.S. Farkel and I go way back and tease each other, so ignore us.

  • glenster
    glenster

    Thanks for the welcome!

    I looked in earlier posts for a claim of divine exclusiveness:

    "But I'm sort of unique I think. Maybe a little like OBVES. When people
    leave the Borg some sort of drift into that foggy agnostic, anti-Biblical, non-
    inspired world out there. I don't. I'm on the OTHER SIDE of the Borg. I'm
    the anointed JW who has the advanced Biblical knowledge and totally pro-Biblical
    absolutism. I'm into the religion, anti-evolution, spoken to God personally, a
    prophet, the whole nine yards here."
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/143706/1.ashx

    "Now the 144,000 only applies to the Jews and they make up only 10% of the
    entire number. Thus the entire number if 1,440,000! (Isa 6:13)" "...there
    are a LOT OF SEATS AVAILABLE!"
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/143820/1.ashx

    Bingo.

    So I looked for what's meant to substantiate it:

    "Scientists who logically calculate the speed of light, logically figure they
    are looking at stars billions of years old because that's how long it took for
    their light to reach the earth; but not necessarily so, if God needed the stars
    in the heavens to shine onto the earth without waiting. God has the ability to
    create the stars along with their billion-year light source if he wants.

    "BUT IF... you want to hang your chance for eternal life on a scientific theo-
    ry that might be wrong and based upon inaccurate conclusions rather than believ-
    ing the Bible, be my guest."

    The next passages remind me of Louis Farrakhan using numerology except meant
    as corroboration to support the Jesus/Michael stance.
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/142523/1.ashx

    "Interesting. I gave up discussing issues about the Flood when I found out the
    ice cores used to introduce millions of years of chronology were standing on
    top of tropical vegetation on the floor of the Antartica. That's enough global
    flood evidence/indication for me."
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/142717/2564194/post.ashx#2564194

    A disagreement with the credibilty of the above:
    http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/iceage.html

    A recent rendition of arbitrary historicism about Matt.24:15, etc.:

    "1939-1945: THE HOLOCAUST. The above references are to the Holocaust and the
    focus of this tribulation against Jews and Jehovah's witnesses, who are con-
    sidered to be the "holy ones" or the holy place."

    "30And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the
    tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the
    Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    "1947-1954: The 'sign of the son of man' would begin to appear during this
    time to the 'eagle anointed.' Whether that was fulfilled or not you have to
    check with them, but we assume that it was. The sign was in the form of cloud
    images of the dead messiah and so that's why they beat themselves in lamentation
    and cry over the messiah. Of course, a lot of explanation goes with that, but
    the sign continued to appear to the anointed and it was specifically photo-
    graphed in 1998. Here's what it looked like:
    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/clouddove.jpg

    "So we know what the sign was, what it looked like, the nature it took in that it
    was cloud imagery and thus fulfilling that it would 'appear in heaven'. An
    explanation of what the sign means in connection with the Christ can be found
    elsewhere in my posts."
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/143817/1.ashx

    I wouldn't recommend giving the sign you gave of the suffering Messiah in the
    clouds in 1998 a substantiation for calling other people foggy and uninspired.
    It's not a very friendly variation of day dreaming about cloud shapes.
    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/clouddove.jpg
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n1_v22/ai_20577442

    I wondered what all the forced point insincerity and straining to seem exclu-
    sive was all about. When the JWs leaders feign it with their stance of being
    the only spokespeople for a literal 144,000, they use horse*** to seem exclusive
    and don't care who it hurts, even if kids die at hospitals, with any distiction
    they claim I've checked. You're not crazy, claiming to be Christ, or a sincere ex-
    extremist--you're a variation of that.

    The dumpster statement wasn't far off. If you're going to play prophet, not
    caring if it aims to create unnecesary division between people at the least,
    there should be a sign of God for it. You're welcome to knock it off so your
    friendliness is credible--not much if you don't.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    GLENSTAR: Out of courtesy, if you wish to discuss the issues which you quoted from, which are not really directly related to the "Gentile Times Reconsidered" please note I started a new thread here:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/146292/1.ashx

    I will not discuss anything further not related to "Gentile Times reconsidered" that you may post. I know you're new, so no biggee. You have the opportunity to post your own new topics, two per day, so I encourage you to do that in a case like this in the future. Thanks much! Of course, this is partly Farkel's fault, but threads splinter all the time. But when the topic entirely changes it is best to start a new thread.

    Much appreciated!

    JCanon

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk
    Actually I do duets with myself

    That's illegal in seventeen states.

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Actually I do duets with myself
    That's illegal in seventeen states.

    Eighteen. But whose counting? JCanon

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    G’day JC,

    Contrary to your assertion, I believe that it is fundamental to the WTS (and hence Scholar) that “desolation” be understood in terms of “depopulation” and “total destruction”. How else do they get from their imaginary date of 537 to their equally imaginary date of 607?

    Your views are irrelevant. In fact, you appear not to realize that JWs have had a gutful of eschatological, apocalyptic, date-setters, and that you are only offering more of the same. Unless, of course you are a joker who is parodying those guys in Brooklyn.

    It’s a pity you try to drag COJ into this. I realized before he did that the servitude by the nations to Babylon was approximately 70 years. As I said, I am not going to provide bits and pieces, since it develops into a wasteful tennis match. I will put my thoughts down in a comprehensive Study.

    Oh, and you have managed the “resurrecting-from-the-dead” bit, have you, with good old Danny from the Hebrew Scriptures? What a hoot he must be!

    Let me guess. You went to Babylon, identified his remains, performed your jiggery-pokery mumb-jumbo, and hey presto, here he is, good old Danny.

    Is he still living in Babylon? Would be most interesting to see his passport. Maybe you could give us a scan of it. With your vast knowledge of the dating systems, you would be able to give him an interesting date of birth. Or do you work from his rebirth date? How old was he when you brought him back from the dead? Probably about 100. Or did he start off again as a baby? No need for doctors for him, hey!

    What a distinct advantage that gives you, with someone who can read ancient languages. How long will it take to get him to speak English with an American accent? When he can converse in English, and he makes the transition from clay tablet to computer keyboard, you should get him to post for our edification here at JWD.

    Will you be converting him from Judaism to your form of Christianity? You have no understanding of Jesus’ death and resurrection, or of the NT gospel, so it should not be too difficult for you. You are, after all, a person of the OT, anyway.

    You could get him a job in the local Lion Park. What an attraction. Disney would kill for him.

    And he could correct your ridiculous dates and your misunderstanding about the “Seventy Years”. But that might be too much to ask for, since I think you don’t want to understand.

    Wow! Please keep us informed of the next person you raise from the dead, JC.

    Doug

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Hi Doug. You are amazing, but your questions are legitimate.

    Is he still living in Babylon? Would be most interesting to see his passport. Maybe you could give us a scan of it. With your vast knowledge of the dating systems, you would be able to give him an interesting date of birth. Or do you work from his rebirth date? How old was he when you brought him back from the dead? Probably about 100. Or did he start off again as a baby? No need for doctors for him, hey!

    What a distinct advantage that gives you, with someone who can read ancient languages. How long will it take to get him to speak English with an American accent? When he can converse in English, and he makes the transition from clay tablet to computer keyboard, you should get him to post for our edification here at JWD.

    By "Danny" I'm presuming you mean Daniel.

    First of all, note that at Daniel 12 it speaks of Daniel standing up for his reward at the end times. Meaning he is part of the first resurrection.

    Now here is basically how the first resurrection works for those who died before Christ died. Only after Christ dies was it possible to then become anointed into the kingdom by holy spirit. So the way Moses and Abraham and Daniel get in, is by being resurrected back into the flesh first. That way they can get anointed and that's it. ALL the anointed are in the flesh during the millennium rule of Christ and Christ himself returns in the flesh for this period and throughout Judgment Day. Only when all their work is done in the earth, when the last human has been granted eternal life, do they then get changed into spiritual beings and go up to Heaven with Christ. Being part of the Bride Class is a great honor, but they have to do a lot of work as king-priests first.

    Having noted that, one wonders how this first resurrection will take place, especially since it has to happen before Christ returns in the flesh himself. 1 Corinthians 15 explains. The resurrected being is like a seed. That seed is planted into a physical body first, to be raised later into a spiritual one. But the physical body it is planted into is not a glorious perfect one, but is called "weakness" and corruptible.

    1 COR 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual.

    Note those tag words: corruption, weakness, physical body, dishonor. How is the seed of the anointed one sown into a "dishonorable and weak physical body"? Precisely. God takes the life/memory of the one being resurrected and sows it or "downloads" it into the body of a modern-day anointed one. Thus they share a modern body and modern memory.

    This addresses all your very good issue questions about Daniel. Like what language does he speak and all that. It's INSTANT ORIENTATION! I love it! Imagine someone speaking an ancient language being resurrected not knowing anybody and needing a SS#! It would be a big mess. Plus the anointed who are in secret would have to come out of hiding to take care of these newly resurrected ones. Imagine the time and orientation it would take to get them up to speed, not to mention the time lost of those who have to give them a crash course to the modern world. But this is the MATRIX generation! If you simply "download" the resurrected one into the body of a modern person, then they instantly speak the language and share all the modern knowledge they need. Plus, they are invisible to the world. It's INGENIUS!!!

    So basically, I simply know the identity of whom Daniel was resurrected into, who just happened to know me personally.

    Don't worry though. Only one seed per body!

    1 Cor 15: and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body."

    See? God matches each personality with someone compatible with the resurrected personality. But it gets even better!

    PS 45: 16 In place of your forefathers there will come to be your sons, Whom you will appoint as princes in all the earth.

    Had you ever thought about what this means? In place of your forefathers there will come to be your sons? Sons will replace forefathers! In other words, when some of the forefathers are resurrected, they will be resurrected into the bodies of their own descendants! How's that for compatibility! They will share some of the same genes!

    See? The forefathers will rule as princes in the earth in the bodies of their sons.

    It's wonderful.

    Now, just so that you don't misquote or misunderstand me, I'll do a LBL for you (line by line) to your questions:

    Oh, and you have managed the “resurrecting-from-the-dead” bit, have you, with good old Danny from the Hebrew Scriptures? What a hoot he must be!

    It is! I can't give Daniel's identity away, but his new identity is with a very, very special person. A very spiritual person.

    Let me guess. You went to Babylon, identified his remains, performed your jiggery-pokery mumb-jumbo, and hey presto, here he is, good old Danny.

    Good. But no. As I explained above and as 1 Corinthians explains, they resurrected ones die and then become like seeds that are then implanted into modern bodies. They come forth at the cal of Michael the Archangel so it is before Christ returns to the earth in the flesh himself, Christ himself being implanted into a "donor" body as well, and imperfect servant of his, the prodigal son.

    Is he still living in Babylon? Would be most interesting to see his passport. Maybe you could give us a scan of it. With your vast knowledge of the dating systems, you would be able to give him an interesting date of birth. Or do you work from his rebirth date? How old was he when you brought him back from the dead? Probably about 100. Or did he start off again as a baby? No need for doctors for him, hey!

    No. He lives in the Greater Los Angeles Area right now. He didn't need a passport, so no scan, sorry. No need for any birthdate information either. None of those issues when the resurrection occurs this way. No need for doctors because he doesn't start off as a baby. He is implanted into an adult anointed one. Clean. Simple. Brilliant. No passport needed. Instant orientation!

    What a distinct advantage that gives you, with someone who can read ancient languages. How long will it take to get him to speak English with an American accent? When he can converse in English, and he makes the transition from clay tablet to computer keyboard, you should get him to post for our edification here at JWD.

    As I noted, he will be able to speak English (and a little Spanish I believe) immediately. He will have a California accent, which is no accent. He's an undercover active witness, so I doubt he'll be posting on these XJW boards.

    Will you be converting him from Judaism to your form of Christianity? You have no understanding of Jesus’ death and resurrection, or of the NT gospel, so it should not be too difficult for you. You are, after all, a person of the OT, anyway.

    He will be a Christian JW but, of course, he brings his old Judaism with him as well. Remember, all that he lived before is memory anyway. When you're 90 years old, WHO you are is all your life's experiences which you carry in your memory. So I imagine the resurrected ones will simply remember their past life, just as if they were an old person. Only they will be living a new life, in a new body with a new identity.

    You could get him a job in the local Lion Park. What an attraction. Disney would kill for him.

    No need. Actually I think he has money and is a full-time pioneer. Not sure. I don't want to give too much away. He'll have whatever means or job that the modern person he is sharing will have. But I appreciate your overthinking this!

    And he could correct your ridiculous dates and your misunderstanding about the “Seventy Years”. But that might be too much to ask for, since I think you don’t want to understand.

    Which "seventy years"? You know, there are seventy years that expire in the 2nd of Darius, 70 years after the destruction of Jerusalem. And another "seventy years" that expires in the 4th of Darius, seventy years of mourning for Gedaliah in the 7th month. Those are two separate 70 year periods. Then there is the 70 years the "land is to pay back its sabbaths" after the last deportation. And my dates may be ridiculous to you, but they are in the VAT4956, and agree with archaeological dating for the Egyptian and Solomonic Periods. So not so ridiculous.

    Wow! Please keep us informed of the next person you raise from the dead, JC. Doug

    Actually, I'm on a need-to-know basis only. I know who Daniel is and who the Apostle Peter is. That is their new, resurrected identities. I have seen both the Apostle Paul when I was living in Duarte, California, which is near Aracadia (the modern-day "throne of Satan"); and I saw the Apostle John a couple of times when I was living near Palos Verdes in San Pedro. Neither of them had died since the 1st Century. Can you imagine!!! All that time...

    Hope that answered your questions about the resurrection.

    JCanon

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