Alpha Omega part 1

by bite me 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bite me
    bite me

    I just tried posting this but it was lost. Anyway, I don't remember exactly what I had, but I'll do my best to re create

    Below are the verses that will help make sense what I'm about to write.

    The question is: In Rev. 1:8 who is speaking? The NWT say it is Jehovah, others say it is Jesus.

    If we read Rev 1:7 we see "pierced" we know it was Jesus who was pierced when he was crucified.

    In Rev 22:12-13 the speaker also claims to be Alpha&Omega, the first and Last. While this section is marked, take a look at Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12-13

    this reinforces the idea Jehovah God as the first and Last then take a look at Rev. 22:6, it is Jesus since he identifies himself

    in NWT (Rev 12:16)

    Clarifies that it IS Jesus who is claiming ot be the Alpha and Omega/first and last

    Read Rev 22:20,

    Confirms that it is Jesus speaking.

    This concludes that Jesus and Jehovah are the same, and/or the WT has mistranslated Rev. 1:8

    Rev

    8 "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

    7 Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.

    Rev. 11:12-13

    12 "‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

    16 "‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’"

    12 "‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’

    16 "‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’"

    20 "He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’"

    "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."

    Isa

    6 "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God

    12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and you Israel my called one. I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last. 13 Moreover, my own hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my own right hand extended out the heavens. I am calling to them, that they may keep standing together.

    Rev

    6 And he said to me: "These words are faithful and true; yes, Jehovah the God of the inspired expressions of the prophets sent his angel forth to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place.

    20 "He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’"

    "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."

  • bite me
  • bite me
  • bite me
    bite me

    i'll post the remaining section as soon as the system lets me. for some reason it is being weird.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Here's the argument I heard that convinced me Revelation doesn't teach the equality of Jesus and the Almighty God. Just a simple comparison of the verses:

    Revelation 1:8 identifies the Alpha and Omega as the Almighty, and as the one "who is and was and is coming".

    Go back to Rev. 1:4,5 -- which wishes for peace from that one "who is an was and is coming" (the A&O, the Almighty), AND from the seven spirits in front of the throne, AND from Jesus Christ the faithful witness.

    So the deductive logic here is that the A&O does not = Jesus.

  • bite me
    bite me

    I found that information interesting, haven't really looked into it, but wanted to share and get ideas. Good observation Gopher. I'll take a look at that one.

  • blueviceroy
    blueviceroy

    Nothing like the clarity that comes when you use a document to clarify itself LOL!

    SUPPOSITION ;The act of supposing ; an assumption

    Reason based on the assumption that your data is correct without sufficient PROOF is an OPINION .ie ;dogmatic view

    Opinion;A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not sustantiated by proof

    Dogmatic: Marked by an authoritive , arrogant assertion of unproved principles

    Proof: The evidence or argument that establishes an assertation is true

    True:Consistent with fact or reality ,not false or erroneous

    Dogma is the opposite of true.

  • bite me
    bite me

    am I being attacked here? For posting something I thought was interesting ?

  • bite me
    bite me

    If not Jesus then who?

  • *summer*
    *summer*

    You are not being attacked. You put up much work into this. I checked all the verses. It is a very interesting post:-)

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