Is It Impossible for God to Lie?

by JosephAlward 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    I stopped reading Pom's recent responses to my list of questions after I read his response to the statement below. I will return to his other responses later, if we can get past the contradiction implied in Pom's answer below:

    >>and with him all things are possible,<<

    Pom's response: Disagree.

    Alward's response:

    Pom evidently doesn't believe that Matthew and Mark should be taken literally when they said, "...with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26), and, "...all things are possible with God" (Mark 10:27)

    Now, let me guess what Pom's going to say. He's going to say that Matthew and Mark didn't really mean for us to believe that "all" meant literally all things; for instance, it is not possible for God to lie, Pom will assert. Well, if Matthew and Mark wanted their readers to know that they were excluding lying from the list of things which were possible for God to do, then why didn't they tell us that? They were--according to Pom--guided by God when they wrote those words, so God would have known that the chosen words were not expressing the literal truth, and the god wouldn't have allowed that; this is strong evidence that a god didn't guide the writing of those words.

    Furthermore, if that was their intention--that we should mentally subtract lying from the "all" they spoke of, then it is obvious that what they wrote was not literally true. That's what most of my arguments have been about in my discussions of biblical errancy. The Bible, according to Pom, is the word of God; as such, one would expect it to contain no inadequacies, no imprecision, no contradictions. That is not the case here, clearly; Pom will say that Mark and Matthew didn't really mean it when they said "all"; well, if that's the case, Pom, why didn't God inspire them to say, "with God all things are possible except lying" ? At least then we could believe that their words could be taken literally; as they stand now, they cannot; thus the Bible is not literally true. If it's not literally true here, perhaps it is not literally true in its account of the resurrection.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>Now, let me guess what Pom's going to say. He's going to say that Matthew and Mark didn't really mean for us to believe that "all" meant literally all things; for instance, it is not possible for God to lie, Pom will assert. Well, if Matthew and Mark wanted their readers to know that they were excluding lying from the list of things which were possible for God to do, then why didn't they tell us that?<<

    Again you lift scripture out of it's context as usual.

    The context of BOTH scriptures is:

    Matt 19:25
    "25...Who then can be saved?"

    Mark 10:26
    26..."Who then can be saved?"

    Man cannot save ALL men even if he wanted, God CAN save ALL men if that be His will. (Which it isn't)

    >>They were--according to Pom--guided by God when they wrote those words, so God would have known that the chosen words were not expressing the literal truth, and the god wouldn't have allowed that; this is strong evidence that a god didn't guide the writing of those words.<<

    The wrote those words in the context of the QUESTION raised. The context is the question of being saved, WHO CAN BE SAVED, not what God can and cannot do. All things are possible in relation to the context of WHO of man can be saved.

    >>Furthermore, if that was their intention--that we should mentally subtract lying from the "all" they spoke of, then it is obvious that what they wrote was not literally true.<<

    Simply keep things in context Joe. Why not tell us all the context here? Do you believe in context? One who deceives cannot keep the context because the context sheds the light on the darkness of things out of context. But you scamper from the light of the context. Why is that?

    >>That's what most of my arguments have been about in my discussions of biblical errancy.<<

    By removing them from their context. That technique can make sentence snippets mean a million different things. Keep to the context Joe. Context context Joe. It's all in the context.

    >>The Bible, according to Pom, is the word of God; as such, one would expect it to contain no inadequacies, no imprecision, no contradictions. That is not the case here,<<

    Context Joe. Read you Bible in the context Joe. Context context. There is no inadequacies here, just YOU taking a snippet of scripture out of the context.

    >>clearly; Pom will say that Mark and Matthew didn't really mean it when they said "all"; well, if that's the case, Pom, why didn't God inspire them to say, "with God all things are possible except lying" ?<<

    All in relation to the context Joe. That context being who can be saved Joe. Context context. Tell us the context here Joe. Surely you know how to read and comprehend in context, don't you? Why not satisfy those reading and show them you do know what the context of these Bible passages are.

    >>At least then we could believe that their words could be taken literally; as they stand now, they cannot; thus the Bible is not literally true. If it's not literally true here, perhaps it is not literally true in its account of the resurrection.<<

    They can be taken literally in the context Joe. Which is WHO CAN BE SAVED? Joe, tell us the context? Are you afraid to admit the context is ONLY about being saved Joe? You HAVE to admit the context Joe. Go ahead Joe, admit it. You won't be lying. Ooops. Maybe that's the problem here eh? Goes against your modus operandi.

    Context context.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    I believe that God does not lie to his friends but he most certainly can lie to his enemies, why not?

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    1 John 1:5-6
    5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Also, the audience Christ was talking to would have also known these facts from scripture:

    Ps 31:5
    5 Into your hands I commit my spirit;
    redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth.

    Isa 45:19
    I, the LORD, speak the truth;
    I declare what is right.

    Zech 8:16-17
    16 These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts; 17 do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Pom disagrees with the notion that the Bible teaches that all things are possible with God. In response to the statement below, he wrote, "Disagree."

    >>and with him all things are possible,<<

    Disagree.

    Thus, Pom thinks God's powers are limited; God can't do whatever he wants, and that includes lying. God does not have the power to lie, Pom says, and therefore it is not possible for him to lie.

    I showed Pom the words of Matthew and Mark, but Pom doesn't think they mean that literally "all" things are possible for God. Pom says that Matthew's and Mark's statements must be taken in context, and that the claims of what is possible for God must be limited "to the context of WHO of man can be saved."

    This is a strange personal theology. Is there anybody else in this forum--or even in the world who believes that the Bible does not teach that God can do anything he wants to do, that anything is possible for him in any context?

    If Pom believes that "all things are possible for God" must be limited to the issue of salvation, then how does he explain the miraculous pregnancy of Elizabeth, and the inspired words the angel of God used to describe how it could happen that a barren woman could have a child:

    35
    The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.
    36
    Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.
    37
    For nothing is impossible with God." (Luke 1:35-37)

    Does Pom think that the angel was speaking in the context of salvation here, too? Does Pom think that the angel, speaking for God, didn’t want the readers to know that God could do anything, that anything was possible for God? Will Pom say that the angel meant only that it was possible for God to make any barren women pregnant?

    I think any clear-thinking person will know that the angel was telling us that all--literally all things--were possible for God. If not, why not?

    In summary, it is crystal clear that the Bible teaches that anything is possible with God--and it says so several times, and without any restrictions whatsoever. Will Pom still insist that the several references to “nothing is impossible with God” applies only to salvation--and perhaps, now, making barren women pregnant?

    Stay tuned.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    I need to hide behind the truth now:

    Matt 5:18
    18 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 5:26
    26 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 6:2
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 6:5
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 6:16
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 8:10
    "I tell you the truth,

    Matt 10:15
    15 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 10:23
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 10:42
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 11:11
    11 I tell you the truth:

    Matt 13:17
    17 For I tell you the truth,

    Matt 16:28
    28 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 17:20
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 18:3
    "I tell you the truth,

    Matt 18:13
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 18:18
    18 "I tell you the truth,

    Matt 19:23
    "I tell you the truth,

    Matt 19:28
    "I tell you the truth,

    Matt 21:21
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 21:31
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 23:36
    36 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 24:2
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 24:34
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 24:47
    47 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 25:12
    I tell you the truth

    Matt 25:40
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 25:45
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 26:13
    13 I tell you the truth,

    Matt 26:21
    I tell you the truth,

    Matt 26:34
    I tell you the truth,"

    Mark 3:28
    28 I tell you the truth,

    Mark 8:12
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 9:1
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 9:41
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 10:15
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 10:29
    "I tell you the truth,

    Mark 11:23
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 12:43
    "I tell you the truth,

    Mark 13:30
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 14:9
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 14:18
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 14:25
    I tell you the truth,

    Mark 14:30
    I tell you the truth,"

    Luke 4:24
    I tell you the truth,"

    Luke 9:27
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 12:37
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 12:44
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 18:17
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 18:29
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 21:3
    "I tell you the truth,

    Luke 21:32
    I tell you the truth,

    Luke 23:43
    I tell you the truth,

    John 1:51
    I tell you the truth,

    John 3:3
    I tell you the truth,

    John 3:5
    I tell you the truth,

    John 3:11
    I tell you the truth,

    John 5:19
    "I tell you the truth,

    John 5:24
    I tell you the truth,

    John 5:25
    I tell you the truth,

    John 6:26
    I tell you the truth,

    John 6:32
    I tell you the truth,

    John 6:47
    I tell you the truth,

    John 6:53
    I tell you the truth,

    John 8:34
    I tell you the truth,

    John 8:51
    1 I tell you the truth,

    John 8:58
    I tell you the truth,

    John 10:1
    I tell you the truth,

    John 10:7
    I tell you the truth,

    John 12:24
    I tell you the truth,

    John 13:16
    I tell you the truth,

    John 13:20
    I tell you the truth,

    John 13:21
    I tell you the truth,

    John 13:38
    I tell you the truth,

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the TRUTH and the life.

    John 14:12
    I tell you the truth,

    John 16:7
    But I tell you the truth:

    John 16:20
    I tell you the truth

    John 16:23
    I tell you the truth,

    John 17:17
    Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

    John 18:37
    for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

    John 21:18
    I tell you the truth,

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Joe, tell us the context?

    You are the one afraid to answer questions.

    Go ahead Joe, tell us the topic of context of Matt 19:26 and Mark 10:27.

    I will abandon this thread if you don't.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    "Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.
    37
    For nothing [GOOD] is impossible with God."

    The context is an old woman giving birth to a child.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    1 John 1:5-6
    5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

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