Again I am sorry just lock this thread.
Purple triangle monopoly
by 5go 18 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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ronin1
5go
Have you read Mein Kampt and also the book on the Neurenberg Trials?
If so, you would never downplay what happened during the Holocaust.
It needs to be talked about for generations to come because so many variations of the Holocaust have played out in other countries, world wide.
Ronin1
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JK666
When is Gypsie Pride Week anyway?
JK
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5go
It needs to be talked about for generations to come because so many variations of the Holocaust have played out in other countries, world wide
Just the Jewish and Jehovah's Witness ones the Nazies perpatrated.
Not the Native American holocaust by the American Settlers and later the USA , from which Hitler got the idea to do what he did to all parties in the camps, not the Armenians killed by Turks during WW1, Not the Yugoslavian holocaust in my lifetime just that one that happen 60 years ago, not Rwandans. If I were to say any of those parties should get over it to a degree you would probaly say not a thing about it.
Most of those parties have either reconciled it our have atleast found forgiveness, but any dare say the Jews or JW's should try to forgive and forget past sins to a degree is perverted. Well then I am a perverted. I am not saying the Nazies were right they were wrong. Though so to is the nation formed by Jews fleeing europe they are doing almost the very same thing right now to the Palestinians. For ruffly the same reasons the german did it to them. They said they want to never let this happen to them or anyone else again but then turn around and do it to their neihbors when they get the chance.
By the way correction the Gyspies they suffered nearly the same percentage of loss as the Jews in the camps they by no means came close in numbers. Also aiding them is the fact they were considered outcasts and nomadic before Nazism started so they were able just leave and hide.
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beginnersmind
I kinda agree with your comments more specifically your final ones. Although your reasoning seems to be and correct me if im wrong that because the other victims of massacres have 'gotten on with their lifes' so should the Jewish people. I dont think we can compare and say they should all behave the same way. I think they should all equally be remembered but the Jewish Holocaust is the biggest and most well known so maybe thats why its the most prominent. Dont forget they also have a long history of horrendous persecution.
I dont know wether this was what you were trying to say in some indirect way but some people do have a persecution complex and harp on about how they are being treated and link it back to events that happened years ago not in their lifetime when its nothing to do with it. I know a person like this. However theres probably people like that in lots of races, religions etc.
I know for one i'll be teaching my children about the wrongs of all these Holocausts not just what happened in the nazi one. The saying that most are probably familiar with that 'those who dont remember history are condemned to repeat it' is I think the most important reason for all of us to never forget and make sure others dont as well.
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5go
During the same war 6,000,000 chinese were killed for the same reason some in camps if they made it, things like the rape of naking is a good reason why they didn't. The Japanese just raped and killed you on the spot for not being Japanese.
Want to know why we don't bring it up, because right after the war they became our very close allies against the Soviets.
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monophonic
and, to be fair, jehovah's witnesses were in concentration camps and did suffer needlessly along with other groups...the problem is the wtbts and their lovely information spins, conveniently forgetting they were in support of anti-semitism themselves, the mid-30's "oops".
i feel bad for everyone that had to go through that, but the wtbts hasn't been discreet about using it as a promotional tool, and scare tactic that this will happen again any second when the great trib comes, so everyone needs to stay close to the borg.
my jewish friends have told me that when they were young they were shielded from knowing too much about it until they were age appropo to know the horrific things that happened, yet, the congregations would discuss experiences in explicit detail even when kids were in the kingdom halls. i remember being very smart at 5 and 6 years old and scared to death of the imminent torture that was going to come at any moment......30 years ago.....a five year old kid scared he was going to prison.....if parents were found out to be filling their kids heads with such horror, today the kids would probably be taken away..
"daddy tells me i'm going to be tarred and feathered"...that would go over real well with a social worker or cop.
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DocBob
"In Sachsenhausen, the purple triangle was also worn by Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, pacifists, and possible also by supporters of the New Apostolic community, who however, were rarely committed to a camp" - Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi Regime by Hans Hesse, page 72
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glenster
The various kinds of prejudice deserve disapproval, though not all the examples
given above have as long a history, or have a substantial percent of the U.S.
public still concerned to not encourage it. Just some info on anti-semitism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canardsIt's also contemporary in that some in the U.S. have concerns about the Mid-
East at times, and "Mein Kampf" is popular in some of the Arabic countries in
recent years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Current_availabilityThe JWs leaders' anti-semitism wasn't just a pre- and early WWII thing, but
appeared again after WWII:
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id20.html1946 A year after WW II, the late Rutherford's book "Let God Be True," used
for the next eight years to make converts, blamed the Jews for much of the Jews
own suffering:"Much of their suffering has been brought upon themselves by their com-
mercial, rebellious course of action. They will ever be a target of assault
by Satan and his agents until Armageddon cleanses the earth of all opposers
of Messiah-Christ. Therefore, their only hope is to accept Jehovah's Mes-
siah, Christ Jesus, and come under the protection of his kingdom."
("Let God Be True," J.A. Rutherford, 1946 edition, p.209--omitted in the re-
vised 1952 edition)The JWs leaders may have meant to pander to the bigotted cliche of the greedy
Jwish person in the next example:1956 "The persecutions the Jews suffered bear grim testimony to the accuracy
of the Biblical warning as to what the Jews could expect if they went contrary
to their maker, Jehovah God. (Leviticus 26:14-33) At the same time it should
impress them with the need of putting their trust, not in silver and gold, nor
in men and human agencies, but solely in Jehovah God." ("Awake!" Dec.,22, 1956,
p.20)1963 The persecution of JWs in WWII was "...a horrible Nazi persecution of
'Jehovah’s Witnesses', worse than that of the Jews." ("Babylon the Great Has
Fallen! God’s Kingdom Rules!" 1963, pp.549-550)
http://www.yadleachim.org/Index.asp?CategoryID=131&ArticleID=207It's also contemporary as a concern about the JWs leaders since they've mis-
characterized some of the earlier things in more recent years:1968 "During World War I God's people expected it to lead directly into Arma-
geddon, but Jehovah prevented such a climax at that time. We didn't succumb to
such an expectation during World War II." ("Kingdom Ministry," Jan.,1968, p.5)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWII1975 "The blame for the mass murder of Jews, however, does not rest with
Christianity. It rests with Christendom and her churches. The reason for the
holocaust is plain: Christendom's clergy and their flocks abandoned the teach-
ings of the Bible and of Christ Jesus in favor of supporting the political
state. Centuries of history show that this is by no means the first time they
have done so."By contrast, thousands of European Jews can testify that one religious group
in Germany underwent persecution equal to that heaped upon the Jews: Jehovah's
witnesses. Hundreds of these died in concentration camps. They suffered be-
cause of insisting on holding to and practicing true Christianity rather than
worship of the State." ("The Watchtower," May 15th, 1975, p.294)There's a lot you can correct there, but for the moment I'll leave it at that
proper generalizations refer to what's mostly true, and most Christians fought
against the Nazis and most JWs were in the U.S. and talked any potential con-
vert out of doing it.1989 In a JWs leaders' "Awake!" under the heading "The Holocaust--victims or
martyrs?": "all those who suffered as a result of the Holocaust were victims,
but only a minority were truly martyrs." The Jews, Poles, Russians and Ukrain-
ians were victims, "But the case of 'Jehovah’s Witnesses' in Europe was differ-
ent." The tract claims that the JWs were the only true martyrs of the Holo-
caust. ("Awake!" April 8, 1989)
http://www.yadleachim.org/Index.asp?CategoryID=131&ArticleID=207The Jewish people were targeted for genocide for being Jews, whereas Hitler
just wanted the JWs to not spread tracts with bad PR about him around Germany.
The main thing that happened before JWs started appearing in Nazi prison camps
is that Rutherford had letters sent to Hitler that amounted to threatening Hit-
ler that if he didn't stop having the JWs harassed, Rutherford would send un-
armed JWs into the German streets with tracts so critical of Hitler that God
would destroy him soon.1934 On Oct.7, all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany assembled
to hear a letter read that was being sent to the officials of Hitler's govern-
ment. It said: "There is a direct conflict between your law and God's law....
Therefore this is to advise you that at any cost we will obey God's command-
ments, will meet together for the study of His Word, and will worship and serve
Him as He has commanded."On the same day, Jehovah's Witnesses in 49 other countries met in special as-
sembly and sent the following telegram to Hitler: "Your ill-treatment of Jeho-
vah's witnesses shocks all good people of earth and dishonors God's name. Re-
frain from further persecuting Jehovah's witnesses; otherwise God will destroy
you and your national party." ("Awake!" Aug.22, 1995) (Actually, the Allies did
that to the Nazis while Rutherford damned the Allies and other people for not
agreeing with his idea of important things, like what year to put his invisible
Jesus in, from his mansion.)
http://www.docbob.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=261935 On Jan.9, The first documented case of a JW incarcerated in Moringen
concentration camp was Anna Seifert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moringen
http://www.gedenkstaette-moringen.de/
http://www.edition-temmen.com/timetable/The current JWs leaders don't hold Rutherford tresponsible for getting fol-
lowers killed with his blundering prophet-playing, expanded ideas about worldli-
ness, etc.--they make out that they did something honorable by protecting their
followers from political involvement back then:1996 "In 1929, at a time when laws of various governments were beginning to
forbid things that God commands or demand things that God's laws forbid, it was
felt that the higher powers must be Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. This was the
understanding Jehovah's servants had during the crucial period before and dur-
ing World War II and on into the Cold War, with its balance of terror and its
military preparedness. Looking back, it must be said that this view of things,
exalting as it did the supremacy of Jehovah and his Christ, helped God's people
to maintain an uncompromisingly neutral stand throughout this difficult period."
("The Watchtower," May 1, 1996, p.13-14)1999 "First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: 'They are no part of the
world, just as I am no part of the world.' (John 17:14) Jehovah's Witnesses
take this principle seriously. Being 'no part of the world,' they are neutral
in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36.I don't think sending a threatening letter to Hitler and courting disaster for
followers is to take no part in the political affairs of the world.2007 (date of authorship?) "Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for
the Nazi Party. Moreover, in the exercise of religious freedom, they did not
intend to stop their public preaching.—Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20."
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1998/7/8/article_01.htmThere are lot of examples to the contrary about JWs leaders' support for the
Nazis and their outlooks, "positive Christianity," etc., on my web page of re-
search about it:
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id20.html