Bible Error: Did the Sun Stand Still for Joshua?

by JosephAlward 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Joshua Asks the Lord to Stop the Sun

    On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. (Joshua 10:1-12)

    Did This Really Happen?

    If it's true that the Sun remained motionless in the middle of the sky for a full day, it is likely that an enormous impression would have been made on people around the world. Persons laboring in the fields would wonder why a whole day's work was done in apparently no time at all--according to the sun's apparent movement across the sky. On the other side of the world, people who were asleep in the darkness when the sun was stopped would wait through as much as another twelve hours or more of darkness before dawn came; men would meet dawn with perhaps twelve extra hours of beard growth and starved for their breakfast.

    They would have noticed.

    Surely this world-wide event would have astonished people world-wide, and would have been a topic of conversation until the ends of their lives. This event would have been indelibly recorded and reported by an uncountable number, by either scratching their stories into stone or penning them onto paper, and passed down orally through dozens of generations, eventually finding its way into the history books.

    But, not *one* single record of this miraculous event has reached us, except for the absurdly short--given its importance--account from just *one* lone man, Joshua, who uses just seventeen words to tell mankind about the most amazing event ever witnessed by the entire population of the world; yes, far more amazing than the flood.

    Would one not expect that an event that impacted everyone on earth, and which was so remarkable, would have been recorded in every place on earth? So, why is there absolutely nothing to document this event, except what "Joshua" said?

    Who believes this really happened, except those whose lives are so dependent on the belief in the literal truth of the Bible that they *have* to believe it?

    Why do apologists insist that every word in the Bible is "God breathed"? What evidence do they have?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    Hi J,
    This is an interesting topic and I don't pretend to have the answer specifically. But we both know the Sun doesn't move at all but it appears to do so by the movement of the earth. It's subjective.

    So the question is, therefore, did God stop the earth for 24 hours and then start it up again? Or did he simply cause an optical allusion to occur that would have been described as the sun remaining in the sky for 24 hours.

    What I'm thinking, since it was a convenient 24 hours, is that God caused an optical illusion to occur and used a special formula for reflecting the sun in the middle of the sky for 24 hours.

    Just like the Moon's light is seen at night by reflection, perhaps a set of cosmic mirrors were arranged to reflect the sun onto this spot of the earth for 24 hours.

    It's hard for me to believe that God would have stopped the planet for 24 hours and then started it back up.

    Of course, outside of looking for a practical explanation, It would not have been difficult for God to have created the illusion of the sun remaining in the sky all that period of time, except, as I noted, it was for exactly 24 hours. That suggests some convenient illusion.

    At any rate, it's not a matter of a Biblical ERROR. The Bible does state that event occurred in that language, so it's a matter of believing in miracles or not. Miracles by their nature cannot be explained by the usual laws of the universe, but in fact, defy those laws.

    So I stand in amazement and wonderment as you do at this event. Just how God would have accomplished this illusion I guess will be answered some day. Whether it actually happened or not, though, is a matter of belief or disbelief, not ERROR. There's a difference.

    LG

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    You have no evidence. Just human wisdom.

    The God that created the physical laws can manipulate the physical laws.

    What you need to show Joseph, is why an all powerful God COULDN'T do what is recorded here, by undisputed evidence.

    Now is your evidence here only because YOU say so? Or do you have evidence to prove He can't and couldn't do it? Or, is it since you don't believe in God at all, that something that does not exist in Alward's mind cannot do anything let alone stop physics from operating for a time.

    Either way Joe, it takes as much "faith" for you NOT to believe than it does for me to believe. Because we both weren't there to verify it.

    Now, we will just wait and see who's faith is justified.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Let the apologist answer this question, honestly.

    Which is more likely? The story about the sun standing still is true, or its not true.

    If the apologist answers that this extraordinary event more likely happened than not, than why does the apologist argue that it's not possible that the Moslem god, Allah exists, and tore the moon asunder, as stated in the Koran? Is it not on faith alone that the Christian believes his Bible tells stories which are literally true?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    From Larsguy: "At any rate, it's not a matter of a Biblical ERROR. The Bible does state that event occurred in that language, so it's a matter of believing in miracles or not. Miracles by their nature cannot be explained by the usual laws of the universe, but in fact, defy those laws."

    If Mohammed told you of the miracles performed by his god, would you believe his stories were literally true? If not, why not?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    What you need to show Joseph, is why an all powerful God COULDN'T do what is recorded here, by undisputed evidence.

    Now is your evidence here only because YOU say so? Or do you have evidence to prove He can't and couldn't do it? Or, is it since you don't believe in God at all, that something that does not exist in Alward's mind cannot do anything let alone stop physics from operating for a time.

    Alward responds:

    I'm not arguing that this event probably didn't happen because it would have been a miracle, but because nobody but Joshua wrote about this event. There were millions of people spread over the face of the earth when this event allegedly took place; for every single one of these people, this event would have been the most astonishing thing they ever experienced. Every single one of them would have told the story of this event to their children, and their children would have told their children, and so on, and an uncountable number of them would have scratched pictures of this event on wood or paper or stone. But, are there any records of a "sun-standing-still" tradition among the indians of South America, Australia, in the Orient? No. Are there any artifacts which exhibit pictures? No. How could it be that *only* Joshua wrote about this event?

    Which is more likely: That this event really occurred, or that it didn't occur and is just a fable, a folk tale, a myth? Since it's so exceptionally extraordinary, why would anyone choose to believe it without solid and extraordinary evidence, let alone on zero evidence?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>I'm not arguing that this event probably didn't happen because it would have been a miracle, but because nobody but Joshua wrote about this event. There were millions of people spread over the face of the earth when this event allegedly took place; for every single one of these people, this event would have been the most astonishing thing they ever experienced. Every single one of them would have told the story of this event to their children, and their children would have told their children, and so on, and an uncountable number of them would have scratched pictures of this event on wood or paper or stone. But, are there any records of a "sun-standing-still" tradition among the indians of South America, Australia, in the Orient? No. Are there any artifacts which exhibit pictures? No. How could it be that *only* Joshua wrote about this event?<<

    Joe. Do you know what would happen if you went into a court of law and said to a judge, "Your Honor, I can prove that the account in the Bible about the sun and Joshua is not true."

    The judge says, "Ok Alward, show me your evidence."

    You say, "Well judge, I have no evidence, that is my evidence. There is no evidence other than Joshua saying the sun stood still. So in my pursuit of truth (yeah right) in history, I have found no other evidence that it happened."

    "Hmmm," said the judge, "You come into my court and want to convince me an event didn't happen thousands of years ago based on no evidence? I think you are confused. Cases whether something happened or not are presented on evidence and facts, not on the LACK of evidence and facts. Tell me, have you come across any substantial evidence saying that it didn't happen?"

    "Well, errrr" says Alward, "No I haven't."

    "Then get the hell out of my court or I'll hold you in contempt!!" screamed the judge at Alward.

    I rest my case.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Joseph, why do you have to lie to support your view?

    WORLDS IN COLLISION
    By Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky
    Copyright 1950, All Rights Reserved

    ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD

    The Book of Joshua, compiled from the more ancient Book of Jasher, related the order of events. "Joshua ... went up from Gilgal all night." In the early morning he fell upon his enemies unawares at Gibeon, and "chased them along the way that goes up to Beth-horon". As they fled, great stones were cast from the sky. That same day ("in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites") the sun stood still over Gibeon and the moon over the valley of Ajalon. It has been noted that this description of the position of the luminaries implies that the sun was in the forenoon position. The Book of Joshua says that the luminaries stood in the midst of the sky.

    Allowing for the difference in longitude, it must have been early morning or night in the Western Hemisphere.

    We go to the shelf where stand books with the historical traditions of the aborigines of Central America.

    The sailors of Columbus and Cortes, arriving in America, found there literate peoples who had books of their own. Most of these books were burned in the sixteenth century by the Dominican monks. Very few of the ancient manuscripts survived, and these are preserved in the libraries of Paris, the Vatican, the Prado, and Dresden; they are called codici, and their texts have been studied and partly read. However, among the Indians of the days of the conquest and also of the following century there were literary men who had access to the knowledge written in pictographic script by their forefathers.

    [The Mayan tongue is still spoken by about 300,000 people, but of the Mayan hieroglyphics only the characters employed in the calendar are known for certain.]

    In the Mexican ANNALS OF CUAUHTITLAN -- the history of the empire of Culhuacan and Mexico, written in Nahua-Indian in the sixteenth century -- it is related that during a cosmic catastrophe that occurred in the remote past, the night did not end for a long time.(Bold added)

    The biblical narrative describes the sun as remaining in the sky for an additional day ("about a whole day"). The Midrashim, the books of ancient traditions not embodied in the Scriptures, relate that the sun and the moon stood still for thirty-six ITIM, or eighteen hours, and thus from sunrise to sunset the day lasted about thirty hours.

    In the Mexican annals it is stated that the world was deprived of light and the sun did not appear for a fourfold night. In a prolonged day or night, time could not be measured by the usual means at the disposal of the ancients.

    [With the exception of the water clock.]

    Sahagun, the Spanish savant who came to America a generation after Columbus and gathered the traditions of the aborigines, wrote that at the time of one cosmic catastrophe the sun rose only a little way over the horizon and remained there without moving; the moon also stood still.

    I am dealing with the Western Hemisphere first, because the biblical stories were not known to its aborigines when it was discovered. Also, the tradition preserved by Sahagun bears no trace of having been introduced by the missionaries: in his version there is nothing to suggest Joshua ben Nun and his war against the Canaanite kings; and the position of the sun, only a very little above the eastern horizon, differs from the biblical text, though it does not contradict it.

    In the manuscripts of Avila and Molina, who collected the traditions of the Indians of the New World, it is related that the sun did not appear for five days; a cosmic collision of stars preceded the cataclysm; people and animals tried to escape to mountain caves. "Scarcely had they reached there when the sea, breaking out of bounds following a terrifying shock, began to rise on the Pacific coast. But as the sea rose, filling the valleys and the plains around, the mountain of Ancasmarca rose, too, like a ship on the waves. During the five days that this cataclysm lasted, the sun did not show its face and the earth remained in darkness."

    Thus the traditions of the Peruvians describe a time when the sun did not appear for five days. In the upheaval, the earth changed its profile, and the sea fell upon the land.

    East of Egypt, in Babylonia, the eleventh tablet of the EPIC OF GILGAMESH [Gilgamesh] refers to the same events. From out the horizon rose a dark cloud and it rushed against the earth; the land was shriveled by the heat of the flames. "Desolation ... stretched to heaven; all that was bright was turned into darkness. ... Nor could a brother distinguish his brother. ... Six days ... the hurricane, deluge, and tempest continued sweeping the land ... and all human back to its clay was returned."

    The Iranian book ANUGITA reveals that a threefold day and threefold night concluded a world age, and the book BUNDAHIS, in a context that I shall quote later and that shows a close relation to the events of the cataclysm I describe here, tells of the world being dark at midday as though it were in deepest night: it was caused, according to the BUNDAHIS, by a war between the stars and the planets.

    A protracted night, deepened by the onrushing dust sweeping in from interplanetary space, enveloped Europe, Africa, and America, the valleys of the Euphrates and the Indus also. If the earth did not stop rotating but slowed down or was tilted, there must have been a longitude where a prolonged day was followed by a prolonged night. Iran is so situated that, if one is to believe the Iranian tradition, the sun was absent for a threefold day, and then it shone for a threefold day. Farther to the east there must have been a protracted day corresponding to the protracted night in the west.

    According to "Bahman Yast", at the end of a world age in eastern Iran or in India the sun remained ten days visible in the sky.

    In China, during the reign of the Emperor Yahou, a great catastrophe brought a world age to a close. For ten days the sun did not set. The events of the time of the Emperor Yahou deserve close examination; I shall return to the subject shortly.

    You have contempt for people with faith in the Bible. I have contempt for lies.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Except for the Midrash story, all of these stories are based on records created long after the Bible had been compiled in the fourth century; missionaries spread the stories of the Old and New Testament far and wide, including the story about Joshua and the long night. As for the midrash: these are stories based on the Bible.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • Francois
    Francois

    God does not violate his own laws. In him there is no shadow of change. Whoever made the statement in the subject scripture was pretty illiterate. The form of the question is a give away that they didn't have the first clue about the physical reality of the mechanism of the solar system, or they wouldn't have put the question like the did, would they?

    Did he violate one of his physical laws, making the earth stop revolving around the sun and therefore changing? NO.

    You folks that believe God made the earth stop orbiting the sun for 24 hours are pumping sunshine up your own pants.

    FT

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