2 Thess 2:11

Dawn

Because of this, God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie; that they all might be judged who didn't believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Growing up as a JW I believed that this scripture applied point blank to apostates - those that decided not to believe in Jehovah. Because of this one scripture I was terrified to really look into my doubts and ask too many questions - I was afriad that God might decide to just "let me believe a lie" and write me off.

It took me a long time to get over that fear - the one scripture that finally resonated with me one day was Mathew 7:7 "ask and it will be given to you". I decided to trust Jesus, ask him to show me the truth. And with that I started to really research my questions.

Did 2 Thess. cause a problem or fear for anyone else here when you first started to question the JW teachings?

heathen

Did 2 Thess. cause a problem or fear for anyone else here when you first started to question the JW teachings?

nope, I sitll believe that false religion is for real , so don't fall for the cheezy faith healing sects . Those people that try to take your money believing you will prosper for doing so don't fool me either.

WTWizard

The Way Jehovah and His organization treated me through life, He deserved the slap in the face.

Leolaia

A similar view can be found in Romans 1...

Lloyd Braun

It should be noted that this is a private peice of mail, (now stolen and placed in the "bible") that Paul of Tarsus (some guy) wrote to a specific group of people in a specific place at a specific time. It also shows, in the same letter, that Paul thought the "rapture" would occur in his day. "We who are alive" is something that the people he wrote to were reading and obviously assumed it was directed at them...

A lot of times I wonder how I ever started reading and thinking that the bible as a whole canon was directed at us today? The Old Testament is a different case. Those are historical and chronilogical accounts and prophecies for the most part. But when the Greek MSS are broken down, you have a series of personal letters that are written from one man to another or one man to a group of people at that time.

Take the following for example:

2Ti 4:11

Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee; for he is useful to me for ministering. 2Ti 4:12 But Tychicus I sent to Ephesus. 2Ti 4:13 The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, bring when thou comest, and the books, especially the parchments. 2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord will render to him according to his works: 2Ti 4:15 of whom do thou also beware; for he greatly withstood our words.

Anyone have a modern day way to use this? Anybody going to fetch Paul's coat that he somehow forgot and left in Troas? How does a spirit filled inspired writer forget a coat? This is supposed to be God's message to mankind? "All" of it?

Sometimes we need to think for ourselves. Just sometimes...

BurnTheShips

It should be noted that this is a private peice of mail, (now stolen and placed in the "bible") that Paul of Tarsus (some guy) wrote to a specific group of people in a specific place at a specific time.

Stolen? How do you know it was stolen?

Anyone have a modern day way to use this? Anybody going to fetch Paul's coat that he somehow forgot and left in Troas? How does a spirit filled inspired writer forget a coat? This is supposed to be God's message to mankind? "All" of it?

How do you know he forgot his coat?

heathen

I somtimes think Paul was talking about fellow believers in the time of the end as "we" . I don't think anybody can get his cloak today but the body of the letter is about spiritual things and not about his cloak. They only knew what the spirit gave them at the time , when Revelation was written you find out that it is the great crowd that survives into the kiingdom and the 144k are martyrs that die literally.

Lloyd Braun

Stolen? How do you know it was stolen?

Because you and I are not 1st century people living in the now Turkish province of Thessalonica. It would be the same if I were to write a letter to "The Cubans" right now and giving my own man made self inspired instructions (which by the way is true of Paul, as only Paul calls himself an "apostle". NO OTHER person in the bible EVER refers to Paul as an apostle). ...anyway... if I were to write a letter to the Cubans, and then a thousand years later a group of knuckleheads decide to compile the words into a canonized book, handpicked for their organization, claiming that my words are abou their own time in the future, say, 3020 or so.

How do you know he forgot his coat?

He said so. He said "the cloak I left in Troas with Carpus bring with you and the parchments". He was asking Timothy to pick these things up for him. Perhaps "forgot" is not the proper term, but at any rate, he was reminding Timothy. The point here is that these are not "inspired God given instructions" for us to live by. It is not "scripture". Only the Hebrew texts were considered "scripture" by Paul anyway. When he said to Timothy to live by what he had since a child, what writings do you think existed at that time? Only the Tanakh was available, as Paul was the first to write anything that eventually became part of the Greek MSS. Paul wrote between 40-60 CE while Matthew, Mark, Luke, etc all wrote AFTER Paul, very late in their lives.

There's a good one for you. What right do we have to read his letter to Timothy? The entire letter is his to Timothy. That's who it is addressed to, right?

greendawn

I never thought about it that way as applying to the so called apostates, I thought it applied to what was supposedly false religion. In the end it turns out that the JWs are a false religion that believes in lies.

jaguarbass

I've been thru the bible and christain thing since leaving the watchtower. That scripture is meant to play with your head.

The lie is believing in a way other than the priest and controllers want you to think.

2 Thess 2:11

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