by Mum 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
snowbird,
On the "Book of Jasher" you are reading see http://www.answers.org/bible/jasher-book-of.html.
Thank you, Narkissos. I researched carefully before I settled on the 1840 translation. I'm reading the Bible through again for the first time and I appreciate any and all input.
Snowbird
snowbird....Okay, thanks for the publication info, that confirms that the particular book you have is a translation of the haggadaic Hebrew text published in 1625. That text, although late, is a valuable piece of Jewish midrash that adds to our knowledge of Jewish interpretation of the Torah, and may well contain traditions that originated in the Second Temple period. I've posted about its nativity account of Abraham (ch. 8) which bears striking resemblance to Christian nativity traditions of Jesus and the parallel Jewish nativity account of Moses (Sefer ha-Zikronot 38b), and the question of whether the Abraham legend is based on the Christian story or whether it preserves older haggadaic traditions that the Christian story is itself dependent on. It is also interesting to compare it with other similar midrashim, like the Genesis Apocryphon, Pseudo-Philo, Jubilees, Genesis Rabbah, and of course the Talmud (Haggadah).
The Book of the Watchers reports that 200 angels descended on Mt Hermon during the days of Jared and changed themselves into human form. They then copulated with women and produced the Nephilim. Was this rape or was it consensual? The Bible states that they took wives for themselves - all whom they wanted. Multiple wives, perhaps? Whatever the case, my take is that the women had little say in the matter. How could they be blamed?
If such a thing really happened, then we could talk about the issue of consent but these are fictional characters within a sexist story, so the story is going to criticize them on grounds that you and I do not recognize as being at all valid. The story doesn't care about their point of view, their choice in the matter, or them at all as people. They are simply necessary props to the author's characterization of the fallen angels as evil sinners; they are only the occasion for the sinful actions of the antagonists. Of course, reality shines a bright light into the artificial constructedness of such a story.
BTW, there are lots of literary tidbits here behind the scenes. Jared in Hebrew comes from a root meaning "descend", so the author writes that the angels descended during the days of Jared. A nice little piece of midrash there. The story also claims that the angels bound themselves by a curse when they gathered on Mount Hermon; this is another pun on the name of the mountain (from herem "curse"). The story is filled with similar word plays.
One other interesting detail is that the story claims that the angels gave mankind many technological and cultural inventions which lead inevitably to sin. This updates a much older myth (familiar from Ugarit, Phoenicia, Babylonia, even Greek mythology) that the gods bequeathed on man many of the inventions we use, e.g. fishing, city building, agriculture, wine, etc. But the inventions that the angels gave are all negative ones. Making weapons for war. Sorcery and astrology. Making witches' brews. But guess what one of them is? Cosmetics. Evidently, the angels liked their human wives to be made up with blush and eye shadow. The use of such cosmetics would thus imply that the women were complicit in the sin that corrupted the earth. It would have made them more alluring to the angels. Interestingly, the early church father Tertullian wrote a whole treatise against women's fashion and cosmetics called De Cultu Feminarum and he extensively cites 1 Enoch as proof that cosmetics are the work of the Devil.
Evidently, the angels liked their human wives to be made up with blush and eye shadow. The use of such cosmetics would thus imply that the women were complicit in the sin that corrupted the earth. It would have made them more alluring to the angels. Interestingly, the early church father Tertullian wrote a whole treatise against women's fashion and cosmetics called De Cultu Feminarum and he extensively cites 1 Enoch as proof that cosmetics are the work of the Devil.
LOL!!! I grew up in a Baptist church and the pastor regularly railed against makeup and hair coloring. I could never understand why men (especially religious ones) had a problem with women beautifying themselves. All in all, I am getting quite an education.
Snowbird
I think that angels never took women for wives! it is a false teaching. The JW believes the concept because of Russell, and because they borrowed everything from other religions. They quoted from the book of Enoch because you will not find a story like it in the bible. Compare the story of Enoch with Genesis.
6: 1 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Men of renown were of Cains offsprings because they were an older group of men who made tools, tents, instruments, and took many wives, were renown for violences. .
Enoch
VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered
I do not believe in the book of Enoch as nothing more than a fables. Some day maybe they will discover the real book of Enoch mentioned in Jude.
As far as angels in Gensis 6:1 they were men. All men on the earth were sons of the true God!
I think that angels never took women for wives! it is a false teaching. The JW believes the concept because of Russell, and because they borrowed everything from other religions. They quoted from the book of Enoch because you will not find a story like it in the bible. Compare the story of Enoch with Genesis.
6: 1 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.Men of renown were of Cains offsprings because they were an older group of men who made tools, tents, instruments, and took many wives, were renown for violences. .
I've read that explanation before. But if this is the case, then what does the scripture really mean? "Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers". <---- Who were these men, if not mankind as a whole? "then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men". If these "sons of God" are the offspring of Cain, why are they singled out as being "sons of the [true] God", and the other group of men are not ("began to notice the daughters of men")? Why not just write "then the sons of Cain [or whoever] began to notice the daughters of the sons of [some other guy]" ?
There is one reference to "Book of Jasher" on the WT-Lib:
*** w63 6/15 p. 379 Rosicrucianism—Compatible with Christianity? ***
Rosicrucianism further claims that Moses received his wisdom from Egypt and that Jesus in his infancy went to Egypt not only for protection but also to receive education and training. 17 But if this is so, why do neither the writings of Moses nor the Gospels contain anything about the mysteries of the Egyptian White Brotherhood? Much store is also put in the Book of Jasher 18 and the Great Pyramid of Egypt, 19 but neither Jesus nor his apostles made any reference to either. They stressed the need of going to God’s Word and showed that it was all we need to guide us on life’s pathway.
The Watchtower used the Great Pyramid in the past, maybe they got some insights from the Book of Jasher, too.
