Babylon the Great

by JH 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  JH

  Now that you don't share JW beliefs anymore, who do you think Babylone the Great represents?

  Do you think its a religious entity, a country, the dollar?
• 

  JH

  And, do you think it has fallen already?
• 

  free2think
• 

  JH
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Revelation was written by John (or someone) as a dig at Rome and as a support to
  the converted Jews being persecuted by Rome. It is essentially of the same type of
  vivid prophecy as Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Daniel- written about
  Babylonian captivity. Disguising Rome as Babylon made it publishable.

  I used to think Nostradamus' writings were vague enough to be applied to too many
  different interpretations, but not the Bible. Well, I now see that the Bible can be viewed
  that same way.

  Note this from http://www.babylonthegreatisfalling.net/

  Again, I believe that the Neo-Roman Empire and Babylon are one and the same. That's the mystery. The political and religious systems of the United States and Western Europe form Mystery Babylon. This eleven-nation Roman Empire will eventually rule all of the earth. The Communist-Russian system is the other major power, but when Russia's armies are destroyed by God, the West will fill the power vacuum. They will rule the earth for the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th Week.
  

  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon

  Many Bible scholars agree that Babylon in the whore's title is meant as an allegory of Rome — perhaps specifically at the time to some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism), or even a servant people that does the bidding of Rome. The Roman Catholic commentary of the Jerusalem Bible, the evangelicalProtestant commentary of the New International VersionStudy Bible, the Rastafarians and the liberal Protestant commentary of the Oxford Annotated Study Bible all concur that "Babylon is the symbolic name for Rome" and that (1st century) "Rome" is the "type of place where evil is supreme." (Jerusalem Bible, commentary to Rev. 17)

  Elsewhere in the New Testament, in 1 Peter 5:13, "Babylon" is possibly used to refer to Rome. This is bolstered by the remark in Rev. 17:9 that she sits on "seven mountains"(the King James Version Bible-the New International Version Bible uses the words "seven hills"), which could be the seven hills of Rome. "Rome" would therefore be the 'new Babylon' and all of the symbolism characterizing Babylon as a wanton "whore", would be transferable to Rome, according to this view.

  From http://latter-rain.com/eschae/babyl.htm

  We have discussed whether Babylon is represented as the old Roman Empire and the Roman Church as Mother of modern day Babylon with the present situation as the daughter. Secondly, we have discussed whether Babylon is best represented in the materialism and world imperialistic nature that the New World Order has identified with in this generation as a revived Roman Empire. There is no question that Babylon rides upon the four heads of the beast and the America is one of the heads. We are to discuss in dialectic which would rule out America as Babylon if we understand that if Babylon rides upon the beast that has four heads, then that would mean that America is only a part of the sins of Babylon and not all of it, even if she is positioned as the notable horn.

  From http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/babylon.htm

  Babylon – symbolic name for Rome

  This Babylon the Great could be seen in John’s time as Rome or the Roman Empire, as a type. (The Christians who first read Revelation almost certainly understood it in that way.)

  Most commentators believe that Revelation uses "Babylon" as a code word that can refer to the Rome of John's day. "Like Babylon of old," says Robert H. Mounce, Rome "had gained a worldwide reputation for luxury, corruption, and power"(The Book of Revelation, The New International Commentary on the New Testament, p. 310). Mounce then quotes Tacitus, who describes Rome as the place "where all the horrible and shameful things in the world congregate and find a home" (Tacitus, Annals. xv.44).

  All this (and much more) can be found merely by googling "Babylon the Great." The debate will
  continue until the Bible is just a silly book of former beliefs, or until everything is destroyed.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I think "Babylon the Great" was the name of a falafel joint that opened across the street from Sailor John's Fish & Chips, and he wrote his prophecies to drive them out of business.

  This opinion is as valid as any other, and just as strongly based in fact.
• 

  proplog2

  Ex-JW's are tired of prophecy. The Watchtower religion is built around the concept that the "end" is immanent. The way you show the end is close is by some kind of explanation of prophecy. You have to believe that the end is close otherwise you would never sign onto the exhaustive program of JW membership. Hours and hours devoted to meetings, studying, service, conventions, organizational rules, preparation of talks. All with the promise that the end is close. This has been going on for 120+ years.

  Ex-JW's develop an antipathy for Bible Prophecy because it is usually the thing that got them hooked in the first place. It seemed as if they had it all figured out. So anyone who comes along who claims they have the correct understanding is going to get put down real quick or ignored.

  Even though I am an atheist I feel I can make a convincing case for continuing the process of observing word events in relation to Bible Prophecy. I have said enough on this subject. Every once in a while I have succumbed to the prophetic seduction and have made predictions. Because of my Atheism, these predictions have been more like the predictions in a scientific experiment. When a prediction fails its time to figure out where you were wrong. But the process itself is interesting, even though somewhat of a recreational exercise.

  I have left a trail of posts on prophecy over the 6 years I have been on this board.

  I still believe Babylon the Great is NOT a religious entity. I believe it is the richest most powerful hegemon on the planet - the USA.

  I believe the Wild Beast in its current structure is the Revived Russian Federation.

  I believe the King of the North and King of the South just prior to the Great Tribulation is parallel to the Revelation prophecy where the Beast destroys the Harlot. (Russia and its former republics destroy the USA)

  The Russian Federation no longer looks like a lamb. Latest headlines as of Aug 19 RUSSIA RESURRECTS NUCLEAR BOMBER FLIGHTS

  No prediction here. But it is hard for me to believe Putin is going to go quietly into the night when his final term is over in March of 2008

  Oh yes. How can an Atheist believe in Bible Prophecy? Easy. It's not from some GOD. There might be other entities in this multiverse that are intervening in human affairs - though imperfectly and sometimes perhaps even sloppily.
• 

  eclipse

  Lately I have been reading up on the relationship between Revelation and the lost Oracles of Hystaspes, which was originally a first-century BC Parthian prophecy about the fall of Greek power but which was revised in the first century AD (before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70) as a Jewish prophecy about the coming fall of Rome. The few fragments that survive of it bear very close similarity with parts of Revelation (especially ch. 11) and I am researching the hypothesis that the author of Revelation may have used it.

  Leolaia,

  That is very interesting.

  I always learn something new from your posts, thank you for sharing this.
• 

  greendawn

  It has to be something more than Rome because it will stand until the end of times and Rome fell long ago. And Rome was never a global power in the real sense as Babylon the great is described to be, having authority over all the nations of the world.
  
  Also who are the kings she was fornicating with and who are the scarlet beast that devasted her?