Did this line of thought ever cross your mind?

by Awakened07 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    OK - first I should mention that this line of *hypothetical* thought may seem extreme, and it's obviously exaggerated to get a point across. But it's just one of many, many logical constructs I had in my mind, even when I was still active:

    So here we go:

    Let's say we have a pioneer sister. She's old now, and have been a pioneer for 50 years. Now, how many (still faithful) people has she managed to convert during these years in total? I'm not sure what's normal, but let's put a rather high number in there and say that all in all, counting both directly and indirectly (the people she converted has again converted others), she managed to get a total of 100 people into the 'Truth' (people who stay in until the end). So basically, she saved 100 people, and they will get eternal life in paradise.

    OK.

    Now - let's say I personally take another route, to put it mildly. Let's say I buy a nuclear suit case from a rouge state. I then decide to sacrifice myself for the greater good. I walk into the center of one of the most populated cities in the world, and detonate the bomb.

    What happens? Well, quite obviously I die, and with me let's say 200.000 people. Since I am now a murderer and have committed suicide as well, it's not likely I'll get resurrected. But - the people I killed hadn't done anything wrong. They were all going about their daily lives and then suddenly *boooom*. So logically - they should get resurrected. Now, it's logical to assume that once they do get resurrected, they are likely to 'convert', because they'll wake up in an already established paradise where Satan and his demons are gone, and most likely angels are visibly active and miracles are an every day occurrence. They pretty much won't need to take it on faith alone, 'cause they can see it has happened. So basically - they're saved.

    So how's the score chart here? Pioneer working all her life = 100. Me, giving my own life for others but doing it very quickly = 200.000.

    Now - an active witness would probably say "Yes, but it doesn't work that way - Jehovah isn't a machine that you can make do what you want."

    OK. But think about it: although the thought of doing such a thing obviously is horrendous - is there anything logically wrong with the story? Could Jehovah in good conscience deny all these people a resurrection just because I had this plan when I did what I did? They had after all as I said not done anything wrong. No difference if they die in a horrible natural disaster or in this disaster caused by me.

    I don't know. What do you think? The point of this 'story' is of course to show the absurdity of it all, and the lack of fairness when it comes to which ones get a resurrection, and which ones don't. You could say that everyone who dies before Armageddon gets a 'lucky break', since they will get a second chance, and as mentioned get resurrected into a world where blind faith is no longer needed in order to believe; they will see that God has intervened and changed everything to the better. While those unlucky b*stards who live until Armageddon comes are killed on the spot with no more chances.

    How would a witness respond to this in order to explain it away (apart from what I wrote above)? I wouldn't mind getting this logical construct 'debunked', so I genuinly would like to know.

    - I guess I should put a disclaimer in here saying I of course have never thought of doing this; it is only a logical construct made to get a point across (in case the US government reads this).

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    That would indeed be true martyrdom. And who knows given that you did it to save their lives maybe under the warped constitution of the organisation that is the New World Translation maybe you would get a ressurection. Religion is all f**ked up so the more violent and freaky the scenario the better it fits in my opinion.

    And um no since I dont believe there is an afterlife I have never considered taking anyone with me.

  • steve2
    steve2
    So basically - they're saved.

    According to one religion's interpretation of the Bible, possibly. But according to other, more rational, humanistic views, you've robbed them of their lives and are a murderer.

    Although you're disclaimer is noted, it's easy to see why it's the religious nutters in the world who are potentially the most violent people, driven by religious convictions more than rational thinking.

    You need to get your head out of the Bible and get actively into real life.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    You need to get your head out of the Bible and get actively into real life.

    Then you misunderstood me, like I was afraid some would. My head is way out of there already.

  • DeusMauzzim
    DeusMauzzim

    Hahahaha lol looks like we had the same thoughts

    I used to say during field service that we could better blow up the apartment buildings than go through them because we would save more people that way

    The absurdity of it all is quite funny

    - Deus Mauzzim

  • freeme
    freeme

    one of may mind constructs too. lol :-) in jw belief this would really work. and if you didnt know: suicide and murder are no sins who do not allow a resurrection. its old light to say suiciders are not resurrected. of course the society would advertise this :P as long as i know...

  • Effervescent
    Effervescent

    It really does show how twisted the theology is. I've heard many stories on here that directly result from this line of reasoning. "Faithful" JWs telling their family "I wished you had died in a car accident rather than leave Jehovah", and I think I remember someone being told by a close family member it would be better if they killed their own children so then at least they could be resurrected. Sick, disturbed and disgusting without doubt, but they set you up for this mentality with their legalistic views and loopholes.

    Great post!

  • bluebell
    bluebell

    it was my pioneer sister who noted this, that she could pioneer to the end of her life and then there could be someone who lived in the "world" and enjoyed in all it's pleasures and then die and be resurrected. She thought it wasn't fair at the time, don't know what she thinks now but she is still in.

    someone once pointed out that a good thing to say to a witness at the door is "if i turn you away then i die at armageddon, right?" they answer yes, "but if you never called and I never knew your beliefs, i could get a chance maybe?" they answer yes "so basically, by calling on me you are effectively killing me?"

    i thought it was great, can anyone remeber whose idea that one was?

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Thanks. Good to see you saw where I was going with it. I didn't ever think of doing something like this even when I was active either (thankfully) - it's the idea that it "works" according to JW theology that was the point.

  • heathen
    heathen

    That's some screwed up thinking there .I think the idea is to survive even tho you may die as a martyr .

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