Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty 59 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  sinis

  Bear in mind the flood is dated by the bibles word only, so just because it claims to have happen/written around 2300BCE(?) doesn't mean that is what happened. and again that is working on the premises that the writer of the flood was aware of the biblical time line

  In fact their is a lot of evidence of a local flood which I am sure you are coming across, but a world wide flood..nope. The mechanics just don't work.

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

  this is probably the best site i have come across that deals with the logistics of the flood and the ark.

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecord

  The evidence against a world wide flood is 'overwhelming' take for instance, tree ring dating brings up back nearly 11,000 years, and to compound this issue some current living trees are dated at 4900 years old, placing them 500+ years before the flood.

  And this is before you enter the philosophical reason and actions of the flood.

  Although I agree with you to a point, (nor complete world deluge) I find it interesting that recent trips to the poles, where scientists are doing core drills, have recently concluded that EVERY 3600 years something has happened (bad) on this planet - and coincides with the "flood". Their take, and mine, is that something happened that caused masive FLOODING throughout the world. Not a complete deluge as is mentioned in the Bible, but massive localized flooding worldwide. What is interesting is that they have concluded through research that EVERY 3600 years something major (planetary) has happened. They say we are long over due, but funny how the pole shifting (magnetic) seems to reach its Zenith in 2012.
• 

  wherehasmyhairgone

  find it interesting that recent trips to the poles, where scientists are doing core drills, have recently concluded that EVERY 3600 years something has happened (bad) on this planet - and coincides with the "flood". Their take, and mine, is that something happened that caused massive FLOODING throughout the world. Not a complete deluge as is mentioned in the Bible, but massive localized flooding worldwide. What is interesting is that they have concluded through research that EVERY 3600 years something major (planetary) has happened. They say we are long over due, but funny how the pole shifting (magnetic) seems to reach its Zenith in 2012.

  According to Johnsen in "Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core "(peer reviewed) they have ice cores dating back over 40,000 years with no evidence of a flood on a major scale, I realise that what you are proposing is more localized ,but still would represent a major section of Greenland/Europe and down to the middle east. there is no evidence of anything that catastrofic happen in the last 40k years, i the way of a flood.

  A local flood to the middle east area only, yes, there was an interesting theory on the 'black sea' busting its banks, whihc could well have given rise to the legends about the flood. I personally haven't looked into how much of this is accurate ,after all it was on the history channel! ( so who knows)

  The facts is we live on a planet that is still in a state of flux, the fact we are sat on a lava bed still , will cause all kinds of problem's it does. Our planets isn't as friendly as most seem to think. The earth hasn't shown stability in all recorded history, with ice ages coming and going. And that's not including the risk from space.

  Another big issue with the flood is the ark itself. According to the bibles own details, a structure of this size made in the way it is described would have collapsed under its own weight, excluding the inhabitants, and not including either the flood water raises and the movement that would have taken place. Most respected biblical scolars now state that the Flood is just a myth.

  Steve
• 

  JCanon

  SINIS, from your ref at talkorigins:

  Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. [Johnsen et al, 1992,; Alley et al, 1993] A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?

  How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

  Both of the above presumes there was ice at the poles before the Flood which is contradictory of the Bible's account which says there was no rain before the flood and thus no means of great ice forming from any snows. Instead, under the ICE canopy, there was a greenhouse effect world wide. Thus you find animals like the mammoth and tropical vegetation underneath all these ice cores. Plus, they are making the assumption that each layer amounts to a year, but are they sure? How do they know what was going on earlier or just after the Flood when these ice cores formed? Things may have been the same then as now. But the strongest testament is the vegetation layer under all this ice.

  So you can always come up with tons of QUESTIONS the scientists can't explain, because for one, they are not following the Bible specifically nor understand the specifics of the flood, and also they make presumptions that they cannot confirm either. The Bible's timeline would disallow the 10,000 age of the glaciers, which they are only dating counting layers, which they think is annual, but could be storm layers, many occurring in a single year.

  At any rate, in the end there are those who will simply have to simply rely upon the BIBLE itself to swallow up anti-Bible propaganda like this designed by Satan to drown the faithful of Christ:

  Rev 12: 15 And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth.

  Satan is the master of knowledge and propaganda, especially on issues that can't be double-checked or that are based on theories by scientists that few people clearly understand. Thus the "earth" represents the Bible here. The woman is not drowned by this river of pseudo-scientific anti-Biblical propaganda, because the Bible comes to their rescue. That means a clear understanding of the Bible's timeline and what it teaches regarding certain details such as the global flood.

  So the anointed and those fundamentalists who are going to believe the Bible regardless, have no problem when they perceive a direct conflict to simply dismiss it as inconclusive until it is proven wrong scientifically by some later discovery. In the meantime, we are not distracted by this talk. The propaganda, though, will certainly drown those who do not have the advantage of having absolute faith in the Bible. Even so, arguments like the above are inapplicable to the Bible's Flood situation, so a lot of these arguments that get the momentum going are just glossovers. There may be a few critical things that just seem to contradict the Bible and can't be explained, but they are few and far between in my opinion, and in those cases, it's just an issue of trusting the Bible and waiting to see what REALLY occurred.

  Keep in mind too, that Jehovah likes playing games with the wise of the earth. For instance, one method of radiometric dating has been argon gas. But if there is an unnatural high concentration of that gas from another source, then it drastically exaggerates the age of certain things. Thus a lava flow in Hawaii that is known to have been only about 50 years old was giving dates of over a million years when tested radiometrically. So everything science does is not full proof:

  http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/3846/1132

  http://www.springerlink.com/content/n315044734841448/

  JCanon
• 

  Cold Creek Swimmer

  JCanon,

  Do you actually believe the things you write? I find that your reasoning is so bogged down in the idea that there is no other way but yours, that I constantly dismiss what you have to say as coming from an unreasonable and unrealistic source. Your mind is so clouded with the judgement that you and you alone are correct that you "trip over dollars to pick up pennies". If someday you were to open your mind to the very slight possibility that someone else may have a point, you wouldn't worry so much and be so critical of those that disagree with your OPINION. Yes, J, it is called an opinion. Just because you say it, does not make it so.

  CCS
• 

  JCanon

  NVRGNBK:

  I wish the Lord God Almighty would help make this less confusing.

  I guess He's too busy deciding what the JW literature campaign will be this winter.

  You are kidding, right? God provided us the Bible to provide us with details of history and perspective. It's a book of truth from God. So he's not going to take kindly to scientists purposely looking for ways to contradict the Bible. NO. Instead he is going to trip them up in their own cunning. God likes playing games like that. So even if everything LOOKS like it is scientifically proven, like the ice core layers that date back 10,000 years or argon gas deposits used for dating, God can turn the tables on these scientists quite easily. He can hide anomalies from them that they can't see and they will make all the wrong assumptions and then be left with a contradiction and a choice: Believe the Bible or believe science. If they chose the scientifically wrong answer and reject the Bible, that seals their fate.

  So it's more than just "This is what the scientists are saying this week!" It's also about trusting and putting faith in the Bible. Everybody knows yesterday's science books are already outdated. Science is moving so fast that by the time some books get printed they already need updating with the latest information.

  So God purposely puts people in the dark and purposely confuses them! Christ too:

  13 This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; 14 and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see.

  For those who have much, more will be given. But for those who have nothing, even that will be taken away from them. Meaning? Meaning if there is nothing there for someone to say believe in God or find the Bible to be true, God doesn't leave that person alone with their doubts. Instead, he thows them into darkness and places stumbling blocks in front of them so that they end up believing in something completely different. They become more convinced than ever in their own ignorance about the truth. I have this little saying that once you reject God's word, he throws you into darkness, leads you to a high cliff and then Jesus comes from behind and pushes you over the edge. Something like that. THAT's how it really is.

  Christ and his father are dead set on keeping certain "undesireables" out of the kingdom. Now they have to keep it "legal" but, baby, do they ever bend those laws!

  So ultimately, when it finally does come down to something that perhaps we as Christian believers can't explain that the scientists are presenting, especially when it relates to the ages of things or man or the earth being a billion years old or something, we have to just step back and grin, knowing Jehovah has fooled them with some rare phenomenon that is giving them completely erroneous dates. But God knows, 9 times out of 10, they were looking for an excuse not to believe in God. That was their motive all along. So for those looking for errors and mistakes, even the WTS says that Jehovah will provide them with enough of those errors. In other words, enough rope for them to hang themselves.

  People are not paying attention. The Bible records times when God comes through and kills everybody, wipes out entire cities, man woman and child. You don't want to get into that situation where you're on the wrong side of God's anger. He does not take kindly to those who choose to follow Satan or insist upon being deceived by his ministers of darkness, whom they believe are ministers of light.

  So no. Absolutely not. Those turned in the wrong direction in the first place will be led even farther in that direction. Those turned in the right direction will see more and more light and get the answers they need and find the validation of their faith in the Bible.

  JCanon
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JC,

  So the anointed and those fundamentalists who are going to believe the Bible regardless, have no problem when they perceive a direct conflict to simply dismiss it as inconclusive until it is proven wrong scientifically by some later discovery.

  Simply put thier collective heads in the sand you mean

  In the meantime, we are not distracted by this talk. The propaganda, though, will certainly drown those who do not have the advantage of having absolute faith in the Bible. Even so, arguments like the above are inapplicable to the Bible's Flood situation, so a lot of these arguments that get the momentum going are just glossovers.

  Yes haveing "Absolute Faith" in the bible even in the face of reason, and well founded scientific evidence, is the same as believing in a lie reguardless of the facts just believe and everything will be alright.

  There may be a few critical things that just seem to contradict the Bible and can't be explained, but they are few and far between in my opinion, and in those cases, it's just an issue of trusting the Bible and waiting to see what REALLY occurred.

  There are more than just a few, unless you have not been really honest in your evaluation(just pulling fact out of thin air), which seems to be the case.

  Keep in mind too, that Jehovah likes playing games with the wise of the earth.

  This is a laughable conclusion that many of the hard core fundamentalist reach when they can't prove thier point "God put the dinosaur bones there and made them appear million of years old just to fool the wise scientist" and former beleivers too,, total bull shit.

  :
• 

  Cold Creek Swimmer

  JCanon,

  Every time you push the submit button, you prove my point.

  CCS
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JC,

  People are not paying attention. The Bible records times when God comes through and kills everybody, wipes out entire cities, man woman and child. You don't want to get into that situation where you're on the wrong side of God's anger. He does not take kindly to those who choose to follow Satan or insist upon being deceived by his ministers of darkness, whom they believe are ministers of light.

  And let's not for get that when God destroys people for not beleiving, He "Loves them", total horse shit nonsense! a real contridiction to say the least. So the conclusion: "You better beleive or else you die!" What a petty God you beleive in.
• 

  Sasha

  Yeah, they did this story on the "Naked Archiologist" on Cable. (Sorry I spelling it wrong)
• 

  sinis

  According to Johnsen in "Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core "(peer reviewed) they have ice cores dating back over 40,000 years with no evidence of a flood on a major scale, I realise that what you are proposing is more localized ,but still would represent a major section of Greenland/Europe and down to the middle east. there is no evidence of anything that catastrofic happen in the last 40k years, i the way of a flood.

  A local flood to the middle east area only, yes, there was an interesting theory on the 'black sea' busting its banks, whihc could well have given rise to the legends about the flood. I personally haven't looked into how much of this is accurate ,after all it was on the history channel! ( so who knows)

  The facts is we live on a planet that is still in a state of flux, the fact we are sat on a lava bed still , will cause all kinds of problem's it does. Our planets isn't as friendly as most seem to think. The earth hasn't shown stability in all recorded history, with ice ages coming and going. And that's not including the risk from space.

  Another big issue with the flood is the ark itself. According to the bibles own details, a structure of this size made in the way it is described would have collapsed under its own weight, excluding the inhabitants, and not including either the flood water raises and the movement that would have taken place. Most respected biblical scolars now state that the Flood is just a myth.

  Steve

  Except if the Oronteus Finaeus or Piri Reis maps of the Antarctic are true then we have a problem, as these maps show rivers and mountains within the interior that no longer exist (under ice). So if the ice formed after approx 4000 bc or melted and refroze (occurence linked to polar shifting?) then ice cores may not be accurate. Also, if these maps are in fact of the Antarctic, then within 500 years things changed drastically (ice migrating). If that is the case then how can the ice cores be over 40K years old?