Went to the bookstudy this morning. The study talked about False religion and war and how other religions are killing each other and also JW's for not going to war. There was many comment of how many early JW's served time or were executed for not going to war. Now, there are many questions I have about the JW doctrine, blood, DFin, dates, just to name a few. But, is this not one thing the JW's are doing right? Not going to war?
christendom and war
by TIMBOB 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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heathen
The way I read the new testament was that christ forbade the use of violence but encouraged people to suffer and die for the faith . He did say things like " I'm sending you out as sheep amongst wolves" .
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OUTLAW
The WBT$ owns 50% of the Rand Cam Engine Corp..Rand Cam recieved a 500 million dollar contract from the US Navy.....Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t go to war..But..The Anti-Christ organization that runs them the WBT$,is invested in war...OUTLAW
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Gopher
Well.... If the USA hadn't fought to defend its interests in the World Wars of the 20th century, and the Axis powers and / or Nazis would have marched right in to occupy America's capital and other large cities, do you think the WT Society would have survived and grown like it did?
America, by going to war, protected the freedom of all including unorthodox cultish religions like Jehovah's Witnesses.
The Watchtower sucks in the benefits from its environment and contributes nothing in return.
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drew sagan
This can be a hang up for a lot of people, but in reality it isn't hard to see what the JWs say in regards to war is dishonest and misleading. Just think about it....
The usual statement is made that 'JWs don't go to war'. I feel this is very dishonest and misleading. Most of the JWs I know as well as myself all know of people who are JWs that join the military (go to war). There are many of them.
It's all about classification. Once a JW joins the military he is DA'd from the organization, not keeping his status as a JW beyond that point. This does not change the fact that he joined the military while he was a JW! Remember also that there is no such thing as a JW who joins the military and remains JW! Thus when Witnesses say 'Jehovah's Witnesses don't go to war' they are being very misleading. When they say such a thing it is almost being suggested that each Jehovah's Witness has made it his choice not to go to war by joining the military, but this is false!
JW have joined the military and gone to war, but because this hurts the JWs public image the decide to reclassify those people so they can keep making the claim that they are better than other people.
Because the freedom of choice is taken away from JWs you actually never know what they would actually do from their heart untill the punishments and restrictions where taken away. Lets see how many JWs don't join the military after they decide no longer to automatically remove anybody that joins! I'm sure the results would not be very pleasing to the JW leadership. It's just like wondering how many people would actually start taking blood transfusions if it was only a conscience matter....
A much more realistic and honest statement would be "Jehovah's Witnesses are not permitted to go to war or join the military", but that doesn't sound nearly as good.
There are probably many more Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, and whatever else who do not wish to engage in war. But these are usually on an individual basis or are the ideals of particuliar segments within these groups. -
glenster
The usual deliberation is between Christians deferring to the government and
military to do good to combat crime or offensive military attacks (Rom.13:1-8)
and that the good the government does with that is something the Christian can
be a part of to minimize sin in the world or that they can't.Christianity went from Judaism, in which you couldn't take the law into your
own hands but which had government for those things and followers could take
part in it as good, to being Christian citizens of anyhere who held government
in the same regard when upholding the common ethics Christianity maintained.
While holding government in that same basic regard, they could either take part
in it likewise or be complete pacifists about combatting crime (it's good if
someone else helps others, but I wouldn't), for some reason.Another factor to see is that Christians went from being a small percentage
of the population with Roman leaders who were often anti-Christian to being a
big percentage of the population with leaders who weren't anti-Christian. The
change happened after the scriptures were written--how does that change the gen-
eralizations you could make? You have to imagine from the basics in scriptures
because it wasn't a present condition for scriptures to reflect directly.The non-JWs leaders' stance is generally to leave conscientious objection as a
matter of conscience.The last thing I have on the JWs leaders' stance is that JWs aren't pacifists,
("The Watchtower," June 1, 1968, p.347), but I could use an update about it. If
still the same, the JWs leaders' Golden Rule is pretty self-centered--JWs are
only to defend others if they're JWs.Worldliness is usually taken to mean to not believe in God or the ethical
basics (don't lie, steal, etc.). The JWs leader' stance is too "144,000" exclu-
sive so the definition of "worldliness" is correspondingly over-expanded, and
they play prophet further with added rules about pagan connotations about things
(ironically, weak faith concerns--1 Cor.8:7). From Russell to the present,
Satan is taught to be in charge of more that way (Armageddon will soon destroy
all, including all government, but those who agree with the Watchtower leaders,
etc.).The JWs leaders' play prophet in being inflexible about things they don't know
about any better than anyone else. A couple of tell-tale signs of it going
awry are that the JWs leaders' combination of Rom.13:1-8 and worldliness makes
it sound like God appointed the Devil to run government to do good in the world,
and it depreciates the "love thy neighbor" value of gold (if someone else helps
them, that's good--I wouldn't).Another is that they aren't currently forthright about what their stances have
caused meant when push came to shove. To hear them tell it ("The Watchtower,"
May 1, 1996), they protected their flock with neutrality in the past and the
followers were persecuted during WWII for saying "Jehovah" or such.I made a timeline about it to help me figure it out at the next link. Most JWs
were in the US and tried to talk any potential converts out of fighting Hitler,
with Rutherford's sound trucks damning all not Rutherford (I have it starting in
mid-'33), which I would think had a lot more to do with that being within the
peak of their US persecution. In Germany, the second biggest group of JWs fol-
lowers began being put into prison camps shortly after Rutherford threatened
Hitler, who had just harassed JWs as political pests, that, if the harassment
persisted, Rutherford would send unarmed JWs into the German streets with tracts
so critical of Hitler that God would destroy Hitler soon (the listing for Oct.7,
1934, about halfway down the page). What else could have resulted? The fat-
head's prophet-playing triggered hundreds of fatalities.
http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklyn6.htm -
emptywords
The WBT$ owns 50% of the Rand Cam Engine Corp..Rand Cam recieved a 500 million dollar contract from the US Navy.....Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t go to war..But..The Anti-Christ organization that runs them the WBT$,is invested in war
WTBTS and the GB have a lot to answer for,,,,,and no doubt when the true presence of Christ comes they will be cleaned out.....they have bought reproach on his name but their disgusting dealings with worldy UN and their lack of concern for child abuse victims....what a heavy load of sin to carry. I pity them.
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freedomloverr
this is something that many jw's have used as an argument to show they are the true religion. I don't know if you've read "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz yet, but what happened with the witnesses in Mexico/Malawi in the 80's shows how hypocritcal the witnesses statement of "we don't go to war" really is.
There are many individuals who make a conscience choice to not go to war and they are not jw's. I personally know budhists, and xian's who wouldn't go to war and they'd face the consequences of that choice.
The FDS/governing body have been *sleeping with the enemy* for many years. One example is not allowing jw's to join the YMCA just so you can use a swimming pool, yet they had a membership with the UN and their reason was "so we could use their library." Hypocritcal?
They have tremendous blood guilt on their hands even if they never let their followers kill one person in a war. How many have died because of their ever-changing rules on immunizations, organ transplants, blood transfusions, etc.? What about people who have committed suicide because of the horror of being disfellowshipped and having every one in their lives cut off from them and then they didn't know how to cope?
keep researching and reading. it becomes clearer with all the knowledge you keep gaining. you are on a good path. -
jgnat
The Witnesses are not pacifists. There are plenty of pacifist groups who won't fight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifism
Rather the JW's are neutral in politics and don't recognize one nation's right fight with another.
My peeves with the Witness perspective:
It's too pat to blame religions for war. People go to war and use religion as the excuse.
Not all Christian groups are politically involved in conflict.
There are other Christian groups whose members are martyred in their attempt to stop conflict.
http://asiapacific.amnesty.org/apro/aproweb.nsf/pages/appeals_pakistan_ASA330122007
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/china/china96/rel5.htm
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR640132006?open&of=ENG-380
The society has often refused it's members the right to be registered "conscientious objectors", a method whereby nations accommodate pacifists. Why would the society do this? The only reason I can think of is so that they can carry the martyr's crown. Not personally of course, just a victimized few. Makes for good press. This is hypocritical and unneccessarily cruel, in my opinion.
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TheNaturalStep
Funny, it was exactly the same here in Sweden. No JV isn’t allowed to do the military service. Many jvs were send to jail in Sweden for that …