"Crisis of Conscious" question

by monophonic 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • monophonic
    monophonic

    Since my copy of the book, eh hum, found its way into the garbage and I need to purchase another copy I can't reference it at the moment.

    Can someone clarify for me, in the Malawi and Mexico chapter(s), 1) the jws were a cultural institution in order for the society to be able to own real estate and if they were a religion, then they wouldn't own the property, or something close to that, right?

    2) most importantly, were there some big real estate transactions happening in mexico during the malawi massacre where the society didn't want to do anything to rock the boat on those? i can't remember if that's how i read it or if i'm adding to it in my brain.

    your help is very appreciated, it's for a writing project, and i'll have to make absolutely sure about #2 soon.

    thanks.

  • bigdreaux
    bigdreaux

    i'll read it for ya and get back a.s.a.p.

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    my book study conductor mentioned the Malawi political card thing at the study tonight, you have no idea how bad I wanted to comment!!!!

    as for a major real estate transaction happening I dont recall that, just that the property they own would be taken from them and they would not be able to buy more. But my copy of CofC is under my bed and my wife is sleeping so I cant confirm that either!!! hehe

  • Purza
    Purza

    I just went to go get my book and it is gone. Very, very weird. That book has been on my shelf for a few years. My mother was here in November and now I can't find it. Hmmm.

    I will keep looking, but I hope someone answers your question in the meantime.

    Purza

  • blondie
    blondie

    Have questions about Ray Franz' Crisis of Conscience? Why not go to the source at [email protected] which also has his books and others on xjw topics available in various languages.

    Blondie

  • monophonic
    monophonic

    thanks blondie, i'll do that.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Evidently there were two separate issues involved that Ray was getting at.

    1 The issue of paper forms that exempted people from certain activities. On the one hand the WTS refused to allow the Malawians to either purchase, or by bribes obtain, certain identity cards that would exempt them from political and national obligations. Reasoning that this was somehow "political" the WTS barred the Malawian R&F from doing this, resulting in the appallingly brutal treatment meted out to them by the government, which had dictated it to be compulsory to hold these cards, except on grounds approved by the government

    At the same time,male Mexican followers of the WTS were permitted to either buy, or bribe their way into obtaining a medical exemption from military service. In this regard Franz published a letter from the GB dated 6 Sept 1969, saying, to the effect, that the matter was left up to the conscience of the resident members. By the clever use of semantics, which the WTS is renowned for, the word "bribes" was avoided, with the amusing euphemism, "financial transactions" employed, as if by this stratagem dishonesty was being sanctioned by divine fiat.

    This grotesque double standard, which resulted in such misery, was never either, acknowledged or even apologized for, by the WTS leadership. In fact this exposure brought their permanent bitterness to wards Ray.

    2 The second issue concerns Mexico in particular. Because of a long history of what it perceives as Church exploitation, particularly on the part of the Roman Catholic Church which at one time held, tax free, large tracts of land, a law was passed forbidding any Religion from holding property. All religious property must be leased from the government, which is what most honest Religions do in Mexico. However Jehoover's organization is so "honest" that it refuses to do this. They have institutionalized themselves as a "cultural" organization, under the name of "La Torre del Vigia" Being a "cultural organization, they do not worship jehover in Mexico. No prayers are permitted at the meetings and no songs sung. But then of course the pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo that is characteristic of WT "cultural" meetings worldwide hardly makes a difference.

    To the WTS the main thing is that they own property in the country, and as anyone who has invested in bricks and mortar knows, this investment can only increase in value, and profit [See Pgs 130-133 COC the 1985 ed]

    It is pertinent to point out another brazenly dishonest tactic that the WTS uses to induct its missionaries into many Latin American countries, and which is evidence of another double standard. This is not mentioned in COC, but is given prominence by Ray in his second book ISOCF.

    As we all know, several Mexicans, in the hope of a better life have crossed the USA border as "illegals" and have continued to stay on in America. Now when these become baptized followers of the WTS, the males are cautioned that considering their circumstances, they are not permitted to become either elders or MSs in the local congregations, because, the Leadership "reasons"- they are "living a lie". If they wish to have positions of authority in the movement they must give up their jobs, homes, and in may cases, their business and return to Mexico. In this way, apparently, the "lie" is propitiated.

    However the WTS itself refuses to pursue this lofty standard. They have found that several Latin American countries do not, for reasons best known to themselves allow US missionaries into the country, unless the work includes some charitable work, like the building of schools, or hospitals, etc, which other religions comply with. Not of course jehhoovers honest to goodness organization. What they do is this:

    They contact a local follower of the movement, who "agrees" to "employ" the missionaries concerned. So they come into the country, not as religious missionaries but workers on a "work permit" The original participant in this scheme need not ever meet the missionaries, but they get in contact with the national branch HQ, who assign them a territory to preach. Throughout this charade the missionaries give the impression that their religious activity is merely a part time activity, their non existent "work" being their mainstay. That this is also "living a lie" seems to escape the mindset of the WTS Leadership.

    Sometimes missionaries enter the designated country on six month "tourist" visas, on the expiry of which they exit the country from frontier town for the requisite two days, then reenter to stay for another six months. Franz recounts that many have in this way lived in their target countries for several decades.[Pgs 282-284 ISOCF]

    Ultimately it is financial greed an expediency that dictate the values of this supposedly "holy" organization, and not godly conduct. This exposes them as charlatans and morally bankrupt failures.

    Hope this helps

    Cheers

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu
    No prayers are permitted at the meetings and no songs sung.

    Do they really not pray or sing at Mexican kingdom halls, or do they just say they don't.

    I could see them doing it on the sly.

    I have been to Mexico but I had no desire to visit a kingdom hall there, so no first hand experience.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I believe that the two issues you are referencing are actually separate issues, but I could be wrong.

    The Watchtower could not buy property in Mexico for religious purposes, they could lease property for religious purposes but that is something they did not want to do. So instead of doing what the government wanted them to do (lease property for religious purposes) the WTS decided to buy property for kingdom halls and then claim that they where not a religion. No prayers where offered at the meetings for years in Mexico because to do so would make them a religion, and at that time a religion (other than the catholics i believe) could not own land. So at the end of the day, the WTS actually pretended not to be a religion in Mexico so it could own property, even when such actions took away prayer from their meetings.

    This was a separate issue from Malawi/Mexico as I understand it.

  • monophonic
    monophonic

    that's right, and since this time the law has changed in mexico if i remember, so they can now hold property and be a religion, so the mexican jws were so happy that 'the ban' was lifted, when actually it was sanctioned by the wtbts so they could hold property and for no other reason.

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