New Guardian Article (page 4)

stephen Bates

Thank you all for your comments on my second article, which are much appreciated and will all be studied here. I am afraid the article not only had to wait for space for several days to get in the Guardian at all but was even so cut back quite a lot - space is at a premium in all newspapers these days.
Those of you who know about newspapers will know I had nothing to do with the headline, which was constructed by a sub-editor preparing the text for publication, but I absolutely endorse it. As a number of you have pointed out, it is hard to think of any other description for the Watchtower Society's activities.
The bird seed reference was one sentence that survived, probably because of the incredulity of all of us here at the contempt followers clearly have for those not of their persuasion. There doesn't seem to be much Christian tolerance or love there (perhaps I was naive to expect it) - but again, as someone said, maybe readers will now be alert to what some JWs really think of them as they stand on their doorsteps.
I suppose none of us can disguise prejudice but as a non-JW I can only repeat that I knew nothing to the society's detriment until I started researching and reporting on all this. I am overwhelmed by the amount of hurt and despair about the organisation revealed by the contributors to this discussion forum. Any religious organisation which generates all this must surely have a warped influence and outlook and ought to be asking itself serious questions, especially when it has been shown to be so venal in its behaviour towards its own adherents.
A further article, synthesising the two that have already appeared will be published in this week's edition of Guardian Weekly, which is available around the world and publishes a digest of articles from the Guardian and its sister publications, the Washington Post and Le Monde, but, as yet, I have no plans for any further pieces in the Guardian newspaper in UK - unless I hear from you!

All best wishes and thanks for your comments once again.

Steve Bates

fodeja

Hey Norm and Seeker,

The use of the word hypocrite was very appropriate.

Well, personally I think even much stronger words would be appropriate, but they don't belong on a family discussion board . As regards the article, what I don't like about it is that it is mixing facts and opinions (and fairly irrelevant facts) together in a way that just doesn't seem appropriate for a quality newspaper - and the Guardian definitely is one. It just seems as if Stephen Bates has an axe to grind with the WTS. According to his posting here, he doesn't, but to the reader, it may appear so. Maybe it's because of the editing, maybe it's because I prefer journalism that supplies facts and leaves the conclusions to the reader.

I'm looking forward to reading the full version of Stephen's article.

f.

addition after posting: Steve: your post came in just while I was typing. Thanks for your explanations, and most of all thanks for bringing this subject to the attention of the general public. But I hope you'll understand my criticism anyway.

Englishman

Hi Steve,

I thought that the article was excellent despite the heavy editing.

Most people equate JW's with the blood issue, and they are happy to have it that way, after all it does give them the MARTYR FACTOR.

Few people are aware of the appalling losses that ex's endure because of the JW's disfellowshipping policy, let alone how paedophiles thrive in the closet atmosphere. Hopefully more people will now know that all is not as it should be in Dub-dom!

Englishman.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Trilobite

Steve,

Most of us here tend to want articles somehow to explode the myth of the WTS for family and friends who are still in. In reality, it is essentially impossible to budge most JWs from their faith in the leadership. The only real way to effect change is to alter the perceptions of outsiders. Ultimately the WTS is responsive to things which affect their pocketbook; they have little or no interest in the opinions of the rank & file unless said followers start to defect in quantity. The two articles you wrote, to the extent that people are interested at all, will go quite someway towards affecting external perceptions of the WTS.

The organization has spent the last 10 years trying to reinvent its image with outsiders. These articles, and the WTS's failure to respond adequately to them will do much to damage their external credibility. In fact, that the WTS appears paralyzed in the face of them is a good sign. For us that is.

T.

stephen Bates

Dear Fodeja,

Thanks for your best wishes and comments.
I did not think I had mixed fact and opinion particularly. All writing carries some prejudice with it (unless it is to be entirely bland and tedious) and, although my opinions may have come through (I think in the circumstances of this particular story they could scarcely have failed to do so), the facts in my articles have not been seriously challenged - and indeed have been endorsed by former JWs writing here.
I think it may be the selection of the facts you don't like - but remember I am not writing to please you, or Jehovah's Witnesses or the WTBTS, but to inform readers who are likely otherwise to be entirely ignorant of the society, what it believes and the passions it arouses in followers and former followers...

Best wishes,

Steve Bates

Ranchette

Steve,
Thank you so much for your hard work and time put into these articles.
I look foward to seeing the full second article soon and any others you write about this cult.
WTBS needs to be exposed for the hypocrites they are.
Alot of us suffer terribly even after leaving this organization.
Loss of friends& family,faith, time,plus the anger for being so deceived,is overwelming for us at times.

Personal freedom is not satisfactory when so many we care about are still in chains mentally!

Ranchette

Latte

Norm,

Sharp intake of breath.........!

quote:

14 Anointed Christians are like alien residents living in tents apart from this system of things. (1 Peter 2:11) 'Not even a plague draws near their tent.' Whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we are no part of the world, and we are not infected by such spiritually deadly plagues as its immorality, materialism, false religion,and worship of "the wild beast" and its "image," Watchtower November 15, 2001. Page 19.

I had no idea that this was printed………..I am absolutely staggered……..!

Stephen Bates,

I thought that your article was just great.

I do believe that any religion that stifles freedom of speech, and breed's fear when one tries to question thing's.....is most unhealthy to say the least.

Thanks!

Latte

Moxy

for all the people who attempted links, replace the offending commas with their web-encoded equivalents '%2c'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0%2c2763%2c574175%2c00.html

this is quite the article....

doh - helps if i get the right link

mox

Kent

Was it really necessary to scream "hypocrite" right in the article heading?

Yes, it was. And tell me one thing, my friend. What would you call it? Why the fuck should we ALWAYS call anything something else that it really is?

Do you know what I call that? Hypicricy!

Yakki Da

Kent

I need more BOE letters, KMs and other material. Those who can send it to me - please do! The new section will be interesting!!

Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org

Kent

Hi Hawk!

There has been some discussion that Mr. Bates article was a little mean.
People, Mr. Bates' article had to be edited and shortened from it orginal piece do to the so-called war that is going on.
You are lucky to get anything in any newspaper right now.
Well done Steve, I am sorry the editor edited a lot of your article but it was great and keep up the good work.

I agree completely, and it's really sad to see some people seemingly being complete morons, believing they're calling the shots!

Some people preffer to complain, and they always do. However, they never do anything else!

Using HYPOCRITE in the title was, is and will for ever be, appropriate when it comes to the Watchtower.

And with all lack of respect - the ones always complaining about newspapers stories not to their liking.

Why the fuck don't you get some "good" stories in the papers?

You don't need to answer - because we all know you bloody whiners are more comfortable with that, right?