Culture, Class, and Congregations

by saywhat29 14 Replies latest jw experiences

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  saywhat29

  I know this is nothing new- the thought of the bible being just a story and a blend of culture and of how people interpreted the world around them and recorded it as such. It's very athiest..y, even if don't consider myself an athiest. Where am i going with this?

  Because culture and class also affects how people look at the bible whether they believe it or not. This isn't another "gay thread" (but gimme a second and I can make it that way) this is about how people interject their culture into the bible in a way to connect with it, and to make it personal, yet how that also affects the message of the bible.

  Case in point. I have been to predominately white halls and predominately black halls, and yes just like predominately white/black churches, they hold different aspects to them. For instance, in white halls, when children acted up, at times their parents would take them outside and walk with them until the child calmed down.

  In black halls, when a child acted up... it was that child's ass! and we would all snicker too, omg.. I loved it. We'd all look at each other as the lil kid would fight not to go to the back of the hall and into the bathroom because he/she knew what was next! It sounds sick, but its not... really, and its not even a black/white thing at times as it is much an issue with class. Middle-to-upper classes have that freedom with children where they tend to pander to kids at times and dont necessarliy have to beat their kids. While Working -to-poor class tend to demand obediance since they to have to obey a lot of the rules and structures in society. Two different viewpoints and opinions....

  HOWEVER two different viewpoint and perspectives (and not just in raising and discipling children, but that too does pop up) can be heard from the podiums of meetings from talks as brothers relate the bible to the audience. I've heard white brothers in middle-to-upper families (and let's be honest if congregations are situated localy then the congregation as a whole typically comes from the same class... but not always since .. "Jehovahs people do not have those same barriers like the world does!" but you all know thats typially no the case. ;-) ) preach how usin the rod was metaphorical and that it was just instilling discipline in kids.. while in working to poor congregations it seems to be a big issues as they feel children are very disrespectful and need to be beaten. "Mr and Ms.! DON'T YOU HAVE IN MANNERS?!111one!" I've heard one sister make a comment during a watchtower at one time.

  And other views such as schooling... working-to-poor congregations seem to be firmly opposed to college and higher education (when they are the ones that mostly need it!), while uppper class families tended to "understand" the economy and the need for an eduction in a trade or some schooling, bot "Not alot"! Does anybody else get where I'm going?

  This might be hard if you have only been apart of one congregation and could not pick up on the differences in culture, race, and class, but I just had to put it out there since lately I've been hearing talks that have been in total conflict with talks I've heard before.

  Has anybody else noticed the same thing?
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  Sparkplug

  I have not thought of it at this angle before but for the moment I can tell you we were dirt ...DAMN DIRT POOR and I was beat like nobody else. I also was quite a curious and fidgity kid...So as I said, I have to think a bit more.
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  ex-nj-jw

  We were middle class, mixed cong and we got the crap beat out of us, but interesting post.

  Be carefull you may be called a racist!!

  nj
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  Hortensia

  I would agree there is definitely a class structure in the WTBTS. In my congregation, which was mixed white and black and Asian, class was divided along the lines of $$$. Since my mother was dirt poor, poorer than dirt actually, and we had nothing, barely even clothing, we were not important in the congregation. That's just the truth. But my mother thought it was all for jehovah.

  I don't remember any division along racial lines as to which kids got the crap beaten out of them. It seemed to me we all got punished quite a bit. I remember a CO's wife hit her kid with a slap so resounding we all heard it - the only CO family I ever saw with a kid and that kid really had to toe the line.
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  Mysterious

  We had a "cry room" before it was rennovated. That is seriously what it used to be called. I think the purpose was that everyone had had families around the same time and it was a place to take the crying babies so they would not distract others..but what it turned into was that if you weren't crying when you go there you would be when you left..The area in general is very much blue collar work. Lots of janitors, loggers, low skill machinists, and some very baseline clerical was the top of the food chain.
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  emptywords

  Truthfully, the congregations in Australia are becoming very multicultural, I myself have seen a huge change in congregations that have large numbers of culture differences, even few numbers. I personally love it.

  The asian b/s are very big on education, not just for language but also for degrees, and courses, they also need to renew their visa and many want to become Oz citizens, nothing wrong with that, but I do see a lot of hypocricy and fibs when it comes to using the uni system to stay longer in the country and so on.... I personally don't care my point is being a dedicated JW, suppose to be honest in everything, and I know in quiet a few cases they are not. many do these courses with no intention of doing anything with it.

  Also we have a large number of Indian and Sri Lanka b/s coming into the org, many have this uppity thing about themselves because of certain cultural beliefs, we have had many a talk on not allowing cultural beliefs to interfere with the brotherly unity. (no partiality, no rascism) but my saying this may sound racists, but it isn't and some from other congregations have actually accused the body of elders of racism because of not being appointed as elders, mini's or whatever. Rascism is happening on both sides of the equator, not just anglo or westeners, which the multicultural mind thought wants us to believe, amazingly it is the westeners that the racist slur is thrown at more than the other way, and I see it from both sides.Should not happen but it definately does.

  the word racist is used willy nilly to get what people want, it goes against all rational thinking and people are scared to say anything or disagree with anything in fear of being called a racist. A racist...someone who thinks because of color culture they are superior. But what culture is superior if they muticlate their women, and think it is ok, then the old racist slur is thrown for having an opinion that doesn't suit the others cultural back ground. How many don't like the western culture, lots but hey multi culti mind set says they can have that oppinion and they can also voice it, but westerners can't in fear of being called racist, bollocks.

  Also the poor are looked down on in some congregations I do believe that, I remember reading a post on this forum last week, forget where but the point was spot on, they said the higher up the ladder the colder, and those at the bottom seem to have the most to offer in love.

  I won't be popular for posting this but what the heck, I'm intitled to my opinion.
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  TMS

  The first Bible Students with pocket watches, pillbox hats and Puritanical values created the ambience for Jehovah's Witnesses. Rutherford hardened the focus, bringing a more militant, less genteel blend. Knorr turned the whole thing into a gigantic, well-oiled business. It's an Anglo-Saxon group really that has recruited other ethnicities.

  The way different cultures respond to Watchtower guidelines is one hilarious subject. I don't pretend to have enough life experience and travel opportunities to have witnessed various cultures interpetation of serving Jehovah, but I know it varies greatly. Ten years in a black congregation in the U.S. taught me that talks given there were not given anywhere else. I smile now when I pass a Spanish circuit assembly at a community recreation area and see the little girls in dresses and boys in suits and ties riding the bumper cars between sessions. I love it!

  tms
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  looking_glass

  We were middle class, mixed cong and we got the crap beat out of us

  We were upper middle class and let me assure you, if you stepped out of line my mother did not blink an eye at smacking you w/ whatever was in her hand (bible, song book, etc.) We had to sit in the front pews of the hall, so it was rather embarrassing to get whacked w/ something that would sound thru out that hall. Some of the kids I grew up w/ thought it was hysterical. But that might have been because 1) it distracted them but for a second from the boring speaker and 2) their parents were totally hands off.
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  greendawn

  I also noticed that the cultural background of JWs remains with them eg the southern Europeans who respect family very highly do not shun their relatives after they leave the org whereas the northern europeans are more legalistic and go strictly by the rules and most of them obey the shunning policy.
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  saywhat29

  Thanks for all the replies- especially the opposing ones; I grew up in a working class family and went to more working class congregations so spanking and even sometimes abuse itself isn't loked at nearly as seriously. I just heard a talk th other day where a brother talked about "using the rod" now being considered abuse... as if sometimes it wasn't. Because some parents will go out of their way to actually find a rod. Thanks for reminding me that abuse transcends class lines.

  I hope I'm not considered a racist though- whatever I say about "black congregations" or black witnesses I'm saying about myself in a way as well. :-)

  TMS, thanks for bringing that out as well about the origins of the religion and how other peoples responded to it. And i defintely can attest to the fact that talks given in predominately black halls wil not be heard in other halls. ;-)

  I remember when I was studying at one time and I was trying to let my hair grow up into a nice little 'fro. Not an afro, just a nice little cushion on top. I was told by congregation elders (whom were black) that I shouldn't do that as I would look like "those thugs in the world" and that if I wanted to know what was appropriate for hairstyles that I should look at brothers in the magazines as to how my hair should look and how I should dress. Well let me tell you that no offense, but I look horrible in dockers and those shirts they were were damn near hideous in the magazines.. no style of pazzaz- quite boring actually (maybe that was the point). Anyways, when I then went to a hall that was predominately white, my hairwas never an issue because the brothers didn't know what to say about it... I guess as long as it wasn't dreds or cornrows, they didn't know what the rules were. That to me was interesting. But what you said was interesting because it made me think- hairstyles vary and cultures vary and who is to say that this lowcut hairstyle (which was what the brother was trying to get me to appreciate) was okay for black men. Also, for black women who do not want to perm their hair and do wear braids and hairstyles that are fashionable in the world (let me tell you because there is nothing different about a black sister's hairtyles and a sistah's hairstyle at all! They will spend just as much money and will put just as many colors in them-again not racist because I'm one of them!) has anyone ever seen a sister in a magazine with a natural style of hair? Because I def. have not.

  So a religion with standards of dress and fashion that more accomodates that of whites actually tries to dictate what is wordly and what is fashionable and appropriate to that of people of diferent cultures and races. And not that that's anything particularly new or that Witnesses are the first or the last to do that, but its important to recognize.