When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Doug Mason

  The WTS says that the key date in the Jews’ return from Babylon is Tishri 1 537 BCE.

  The WTS uses that date to arrive at its incorrect date of 607 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem. In turn, its 607 BCE date is used to provide the date of October 1914 CE for Christ’s Parousia and the setting up of God’s Kingdom Government. The WTS claims to be the sole representative upon Earth of God’s Kingdom.

  The date of the Jew’s return is thus crucial to the Watchtower Society’s (WTS) existence and authority. I have just placed a study on the subject at:

  http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/The_Jews_return_home.pdf

  I would appreciate any thoughts.

  Doug
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  Alwayshere

  The Jews did return in 537. 607 is crucial for their 1914 doctrine.
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  scholar

  Doug Mason

  Post 186

  You request an opinioin regarding your research on the subject of the Society's research establishing 537 BCE for the date of the Return of the Jewish Exiles which fact is essential for an accurate Bible chronology. Your article titled 'When Did The Jews Return To Jerusalem' is just a piece of WT 'bashing' offering no alternative date for the Return but simply hones in on certain assumptions made by celebrated WT scholars that the Decree was made by the spring of 537 BCE.

  You admit no reference to Jonsson's pitiful research on this subject expressed by means of a mere footnote* which he also is forced to make similar expressions as does the WT writers as to the first year of Cyrus and the timing of the Decree wherein he uses similar assumptive expressions. The simple facts are that scholars cannot be dogmatic as to the precise date of Cyrus' first year and when the edict or decree was made. Scholars such as the 'celebrated ones' and other historians simply have to use what evidence is available both secular and biblical and make certain assumptions or interpretations in order to make a history or chronology. In short, JW'S are confident that both the secular evidence and Ezra clearly establish that 537 BCE and not 538 BCE is the date of the Return.

  * C arl O. Jonsson in The Gentile Times Reconsidered, 2004, 4th edn.,p.90, ftn.2.

  scholar JW
• 

  garybuss

  When DID the Jews return?
  
  1947
  
  
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  Doug Mason

  Dear Scholar JW,
  
  Thank you for your views. I am glad to see them.
  
  I did not refer to Carl Jonsson's work because I do not know what he has written on the subject. I obtained this information during the 1960s, mostly from the works by Geoff Rogerson and by Max Hatton, while Carl Olof Jonsson was still a JW and unknown to me. I wrote similar material during the 1960s, it is just that modern technology permits me to present it in a better form. Work from facts, not from assumptions.
  
  The WTS's date of 607 comes from an assumption that the Jews returned in 537. I do not need to prove whether this is correct or incorrect, because it is only significant for the WTS. It's a non-issue for anyone else.
  
  You say you are "confident", but you offer no evidence to back up your confidence.
  
  You admit that "scholars cannot be dogmatic as to the precise date of Cyrus' first year and when the edict or decree was made." Therein lies the problem for the WTS.
  
  You say that "Scholars such as the 'celebrated ones' and other historians simply have to use what evidence is available both secular and biblical" but you did not provide me with that evidence. Nor did you prove that the evidence is ironclad, rock solid proof.
  
  You say that the WTS has "to make certain assumptions". What are they? Are these so strong that the foundation stands?
  
  If irrefutable evidence is provided that the Jews returned during 537 BCE, I will be the first to accept it. But I have not yet seen the proof.
  
  The WTS's writers do not instill any sense of confidence.
  
  Doug
• 

  katiekitten

  When did the jews return?

  When the exchange rate was in their favour.
• 

  5go

  When DID the Jews return?

  They never left the babylonians like most conqueors only took the elites which later became the jews, and left the peasants which were to many to take. They later became the samaritans.

  The philistines now know as the palestinians have better claim to the area by the way. Hence why the romans and all empires before and after named the area after them.
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  scholar

  Doug Mason

  As I said previously your article offers nothing new on this subject by way of your research as to the precise date for the Return so what you have written is simply WT bashing. You base your criticism on certain assumptions that the celebrated WT scholars find necessary in order to compute the date for the Return. These assumptions are used and recognized by all scholars and historians who have written on this subject and this is proven by the fact that there are different dates for this event proposed by such authorities.

  I am amazed that you have not consulted Jonsson's research for he has published such relevant material over the last twenty years and his footnote on this subject has been published since 1998. This footnote uses similar assumptions as the 'celebrated ones' and in fact he uses an authority that supports 537 rather than 538 BCE which is the 'apostate date' favoured by him.

  scholar JW
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  Sasha

  1047
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  Doug Mason

  JW Scholar,
  
  I know this is not new. I have known these facts for over 40 years, and they are the same as they were then.
  
  As you agree, the WTS/GB makes "certain assumptions" that they use "to compute the date for the Return." In my Study, I have listed and anlaysed those assumptions. But they are -- as you say -- only assumptions. They are NOT facts, just hopeful guesses.
  
  These "celebrated scholars of the WTS" do not "compute" the date for the return, they only HOPE they are correct. I do NOT call that scholarship.
  
  As you point out, scholars and historians make assumptions, and that is all that they are. You agree, saying "this is proven by the fact that there are different dates for this event proposed by such authorities." They differ because they are only making assumptions. No one knows, and this is critical for the WTS, and for them alone.
  
  PROVE to me exactly WHEN Cyrus made his Decree. PROVE to me that the Jews returned at the time that the WTS claims.
  
  I can just visualise the frantic activity going on at the WTS as they try to create an emotional smokescreen over this discussion. I look forward to seeing an article in a future magazine. If you are involved with such an activity, please ensure that the information is confined to FACTS.
  
  Do you want me to list some of these facts here?
  
  It is not a question of WHO is right but WHAT is correct.
  
  Doug