Apocryphal Books

by Black Man 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Did a bunch of religious people get together and read them and throw away whatever they didn't like?

    No more than a small group of radio listeners get together each week to decide what's going to be on the Weekly Top 40. By the time "canonicity" became an issue, there were already informal norms and patterns of usage that already favored certain books over others in various Christian communities. A four-gospel canon was already in place in the mid-second century (as the Diatessaron attests, as well as Justin Martyr's earlier gospel harmony) and the Pauline correspondence was regarded as canonical in the middle of the second century as Marcion also attests. Most of the disputes on canonicity within early orthodox churches concerned the General Epistles and Revelation, e.g. whether 2 Peter was really Petrine and thus on an equal par with 1 Peter, whether Revelation was really Johannine and accepted as authoritative, whether Jude is acceptable despite its use of the pseudepigrapha, whether non-apostolic books like Hermas and 1 Clement are authoritative and worthy of inclusion in the canon, etc. There were also regional variances, such as a rejection of Paul in Syria, a rejection of John among the Alogi in Asia Minor, rejection of Hebrews in Rome, etc. Markedly non-orthodox churches, especially those among various gnostic groups, had different standards and ideas about canon than orthodox groups, and thus accorded semi-canonical status to gnostic tractates that originated within these groups but which claimed apostolic status.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    The Metzger book already mentioned gives the standard account of the formation of the canon. An interesting alternative theory was presented by David Trobisch in The First Edition of the New Testament where he argues the canon was settled as early as the second century, much earlier than most other scholars would have it. As to the actual content of the Apocrypha, Metzger's other book would be a good start: An Introduction to the Apocrypha.

    Slim

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    They were part of the Bible. The pigs took them out of the Bible to start the original Catholic cult, which led us into the Dark Ages. And, since they were part of the original Bible, they should all be put back in the Bible. And if the teachings contained therein are confusing when integrated with the 66 books we call the Bible, then it means that the 66 books were taken the wrong way.

    This is one way to understand the Bible: Jesus was trying to help people develop the ability to think independently, and used a lot of parables to that end. To the bicameral men, that worked. However, once one breaks out of bicameralism (like Paul), the literal translation loses its meaning and is no longer accurate. However, Paul attempted to interpret it literally anyway. And that caused the original mess that makes it so confusing for people to integrate those missing books (which do not have anything to say about going to hell or any other punishment).

    I would like to see those missing books put back in the Bible, and then have things brought up to date. We are not bicameral like most of the original Bible writers, prophets, and characters were. We have the ability to make our own decisions for ourselves. We do not need Platonic leadership to function--though there are always just enough people to abuse the freedom to question that. What the Catholic church did with the original Bible was a shame--and the Craptower did just as bad. The NWT is deliberately tampered with to fit Watchtower doctrine--and of course they discredit all the missing books as spurious. Perhaps if they were to read those book (independent of any Watchtower literature, of course), then there would be more of them leaving.

  • eclipse
    eclipse
    Sounds like something the OLD god would do...
    (2 Samuel 6:6-7)
    But that was before he had a mother.

    My thoughts exactly.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    I love the book of 1 Enoch!

  • CyrusThePersian
    CyrusThePersian
    I love the book of 1 Enoch!

    Hi nvr!

    Jude liked it too!- Jude:14

    Makes you wonder how Jude made it into the canon and 1 Enoch did not.

    CyrusThePersian

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The big picture to keep in mind before getting lost in the details is that closing the Hebrew Bible (OT) canon was originally a Jewish, not Christian worry -- and a Pharisaic-rabbinical accomplishment, after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. Early Christians would originally welcome about any Jewish "scripture" they felt they could use to back up their beliefs. But their arguments would lose much of their force if the texts they referred to were no longer acknowledged by official Judaism. This is reflected in Jerome's choice of hebraica veritas ("Hebrew truth") against the Greek Septuagint which had been the standard "Christian OT" so far -- a preference for both the standardised Jewish Hebrew text (proto-Masoretic) and canon, which . However, there was never an official decision as to the OT canon before the 16th century when the Western church split asunder -- Protestantism deciding for the Jewish canon and Catholicism for a wider one including some books of the Septuagint tradition (Deuterocanon).

    Otoh, the emerging great (catholic) church from the 2nd to 4th century was eager to close the NT Christian canon as a basis for its own orthodoxy against its own "heretics". This of course doesn't mean that all NT books were originally "orthodox" -- just that they were deemed compatible with orthodoxy and/or could not be left out because they were highly revered in important segments of the "catholic/orthodox" deal.

    So, power struggle and negotiation, indeed, but within two different communities with only limited interaction between them.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk
    I love the book of 1 Enoch!

    Hi nvr!

    Jude liked it too!- Jude:14

    Makes you wonder how Jude made it into the canon and 1 Enoch did not.

    CyrusThePersian

    Good question CyrusThePersian.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Makes you wonder how Jude made it into the canon and 1 Enoch did not.

    I just dealt with this question last week:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/135647/2416636/post.ashx#2416636

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I love the book of Enoch, and I consider it "inspired". It describes the secret societies that have running this world to a tee. I only have one problem with it, that it says the Nephilim reached a height of 3,000 ells. I believe that equates to about 2,250 feet. Can anyone explain this?

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